In The Den with Mama Dragons

Banned Books

• Mama Dragons • Episode 78

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Many states and school districts are threatening to defund libraries and are challenging books at an increasing rate.  Removing books from library shelves reduces public access to information and is often part of an attempt to control what can be taught or discussed in public spaces, usually done under the guise of protecting children. Public libraries are often targeted for their inclusion of queer and transgender authors and books that address any subject matter that relates to gender, sexuality, and racism. Today Jen is joined In the Den by librarian Lynn Steinmeyer to discuss the impacts of book banning and what we can do about it. 


Special Guest: Lynn Steinmeyer


Lynn earned her MLIS degree from the University of Rhode Island and then worked almost 16 years in a small public library in CT. She then earned her MSW from Simmons College in Massachusetts and has been working with youth and families for more than a year. She is the mother of 2 children (22 and 24) who aren’t children anymore. They are both in long term relationships so Lynn claims two lovely daughters-in-law as well.


A Note from Lynn: 


I would really encourage listeners to go to their local library and ask to see the Collection Development Policies. If we are focusing on serving our community and 30% of the community identify as LGBTQ - then in theory, 30% of the collection in that demographic should reflect our community! Hopefully people can look at the links below and see what they can do to support their local libraries and Friends of the Library groups. Also, maybe they will look at these lists and want to start their own fREADom to Read Group. If they want advice and support in that endeavor they can reach out to me. I would be glad to support them in what way I can, even if it will only be a supportive ear. 



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JEN: Hello and welcome to In The Den with Mama Dragons. I’m your host, Jen. This podcast was created to walk and talk with you through the journey of raising happy, healthy, and productive LGBTQ humans. Thanks for listening. We are glad you’re here.

Benjamin Franklin is credited with inventing the library systems as we know it today in the United States. In his autobiography, he says, “These libraries have improved the general conversation of Americans” and “made the common tradesmen and farmers as intelligent as most gentlemen from other countries.” This first library was in 1731, almost 300 years ago!!! Which is astonishing!! But recently, several states and many school districts are threatening to defund libraries and are challenging books at an increasing rate. Removing books from library shelves does reduce the public access to information. It’s often part of an attempt to control what cannot be taught or discussed in public spaces. This is usually done under the guise of protecting children. 

This topic is of particular interest to the Mama Dragons because they have largely targeted public libraries over their inclusion of queer and transgender authors AND works that address any subject matter relating to gender, sexuality, and racism. And we want our children and our loved ones to see a wide variety of representation. Representation matters. Today, we have Lynn Steinmeyer with a Masters in library and information systems and a Masters in social work, here to break it down a bit.

She earned her MLIS degree from the University of Rhode Island and then worked almost 16 years in a small public library in Connecticut. She then earned her MSW from Simmons College and has been working with youth and families for more than a year. She is the mother of 2 children, 22 and 24, so they certainly aren't children now. And they are both in long term relationships so she claims 2 lovely daughter-in-laws. Welcome in the den, Lynn. We are so happy to have you here with us.

LYNN: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been exciting to be able to be a part of this.

JEN: We’re grateful that you’re here. I want to start in the deep end. I want to go right to an argument that I hear often when we’re talking about banned books because that’s what it’s been labeled, right, “Banned Books.”

LYNN: Mm-hmm.

JEN: And the argument I hear most often is “If you can buy a book on Amazon it isn’t being banned.” Can we talk about that?

LYNN: I would love to talk about that. And there is a young author by the name of Jason Reynolds. He has written All American Boys with Brendan Kiely and he has written so many books for that middle school and high school age. And he was the Library of Congress Youth Ambassador during the COVID pandemic. And he had a podcast called Write. Right. Rite. and it was like different versions of rights. And he was trying to engage youth in that idea of writing your own story, hearing your own voice. And he said that if a book is banned and it is not in the school library, not all youth have the $20 or the ability to get that book from another vendor. And so his book All American Boys was banned and challenged because he and Brendan Kiely wrote alternating chapters. One in the voice of an African American high school student and one in the voice of – and he had gotten beaten up by a police officer. And the brother of the police officer, so another Caucasian youth. And it was their versions of this situation. And as you could probably guess it was banned and challenged because it does not present a positive look on the police officers. And so he had written so many other books. They’re all amazing. Some are novels in verse and some are just middle school youth track team kind of friendships and stuff that happens. And he was saying, “When my books are taken out of schools, my audience can’t read them.” So that’s a very different perspective as opposed to Mark Twain when Mark Twain or Samuel Clemens got banned, he’s like, “You’re banned in Boston and then everyone buys your book. So go get banned.” But when you think of who your audience is and Jason Reynolds' audience is the school student.

JEN: So, I want to pause before we go on and talk about the word “banned” because sometimes we’re talking about removing books. And sometimes we’re talking about not purchasing books. And sometimes we’re talking about making a book – I don’t want to say illegal because that’s not a law when it’s a school district. But it could be on a state level. So what are we talking about? When someone says a book is banned or they’re banning books, what do they mean?

LYNN: Well, usually the American Library Association has a very specific protocol which all public libraries are supposed to use. The policy of the American Library Association is to have a person fill out a reconsideration form. And on that reconsideration form, it says “Have you read the book, how much of the book have you read, and why do you want to have this book removed from the library?” And all these other questions. I forget how long it is. I want to say it’s like three or four pages. And then that is supposed to go to the library director – or I forget what the school media specialist is called, but the librarian in charge of the school – and then there’s supposed to be a decision made by the library director if it’s a public library. And then they will respond to that reconsideration form, “Dear John Smith, thank you for your consideration. Based on what you’ve said, I think this is a very important part and I’m sorry you don’t like it. But we’re going to keep the book anyway.” Or they could say, “John Smith, thank you for bringing this to our attention. We’re going to follow your lead and we’re going to remove the book.” But if the person doesn’t like what the library director says and doesn’t agree with it, then the second part of the challenge would be to go to the library board. And then the library board, in theory, would agree with the library director – in theory, it depends on the town, it depends on where you are – and support the library director in their decision. And I believe school policies usually have the reconsideration form going to the school librarian and then they would have a team of faculty or teachers looking at that reconsideration form.

JEN: So there’s kind of like there is a backup system. If there’s actual pornography displayed in the child section and I complain and the librarian disagrees with me and says, “Nope. Disagree. It’s fine.” I can go to the library board and they’re not going to agree with the librarian. Probably the librarian’s going to lose their job, actually. But there’s like a backup system, right?

LYNN: There is a backup system. And the thing is, is for example, in the state of Virginia had a question to the book Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe. Now, that author, Maia Kobabe, uses the pronouns, E/Eir. And for somehow I really have a hard time with E/Eir. So please forgive me if I mess up your pronouns. But that author has an amazing graphic novel which is a biography, a memoir of their life, how they got to be where they are. And there was a group that went against the state of Virginia to say “This is pornography.” And you can find people online that are bound and determined that it is pornography. However, the state decided that whatever pictures there were, it was not. It was art and it wasn’t pornography. And there is that question, “Well what is it? Will you know it when you see it?” Well, for some people they look at Gender Queer and they see pornography. So it is really hard because we purchased that book about two years before I left the library. And for the two or three years that it was on the shelf, it probably went out about five times, all to adults who wanted to see what the kerfuffle was about. The children never took it out because it was in the youth section. So the youth is like 13 and older. And it was written for a high school crowd. So I would say 13 and older is where it should be but it was just really interesting because the moment I left, there was a challenge to that book.

JEN: The only reason I’ve ever heard of it is because of all the people who are mad about it. And we’ve spent a lot of time in the library.

LYNN: Yeah.

JEN: They're kind of giving it more attention.

LYNN: Exactly, because everyone is now buying the book to see what the kerfuffle is about. And I can say, I have led a Freedom to Read book group in our local church. It’s a combination, friends of the library, church sponsored program. Once a month we read a different book. All retired old white people, however, they all have grandchildren, nieces and nephews and they’re like, “Yeah, I want to read that book.” There were a few people that went, “Oh, OK. I’m glad I read the book. But it’s not book I’m probably going to read again.” But if their niece or nephew or grandchild have questions and want to learn more, it is a great book because a person cannot look up something if they don't have the vocabulary for it. And so this is a book that gives them that vocabulary. The author was like, “Oh, am I a lesbian? No. I’m not a lesbian. Am I transgender? No. I’m not a transgender individual.” And it went through and asked all the questions. And it was incredible to have this group of retired old white people sit there and go, “Oh, I never thought about it that way before. And now I have words for when my grandchild comes and says I think I’m nonbinary/aromantic.” And Grandma can go, “yes, OK. You’re nonbinary/aromantic, I can see that.” And that’s wonderful.

JEN: So there’s this path to remove books from individuals. What happens if – I was going to say posse but that’s more connotation than I was hoping for…

LYNN: A group of individuals.

JEN: What happens if individuals gather together and they flood the library with this form? You’re the librarian. There’s seven of you maybe on staff. You’re a pretty big library and all of the sudden you get a thousand forms, what happens to the library?

LYNN: Well, a thousand forms, that would be a lot. And the question is, because right on the top of it is like you have to fill in all the questions. So, first thing they would do is, “Okay, have they read the book?” Are they coming at it from a perspective of “I have read The Pearl by John Steinbeck. And it is a horrible book that talks about people shooting babies in mothers’ arms.” But you need to think that especially a public library, where is the public library getting their funds? If they are a public municipal library and they are getting the funds from the taxpayers then, in theory, they need to be good stewards of the money that they receive and they need to have something in the library for everyone in the community which they serve. So, when you think that, I’m not exactly certain what the demographics are for the under 25. But I think it’s 1 in 10 are LGBTQ.

JEN: Oh, anywhere from 5% to 7% are estimates right now.

LYNN: So, in theory, 5% to 7% of the collection should be revolving around gay, LGBTQ, issues because they need to see themselves in the community, not just having horrible days. But they need to see themselves in situations where they’re happy and healthy and in loving, healthy relationships. And they need to have that nonfiction support as well. What about medical issues? What about these things? So, oftentimes, people are looking at the books going, Oh The Bluest Eye by…

JEN: Toni Morrison.

LYNN: I was going to say Toni Morrison. It took me a while because I’m like okay, is that the other one? Toni Morrison. That has incest in it and it has violence and it has all these other things. So “Oh, we have to protect our children.” Diary of Anne Frank. “Oh, that’s so sad. We have to protect our children. Don’t have that book in.” And yet, the children need to see both the good and the bad because if all they ever see is the good, then they don’t understand the shadow. And humanity has shadow. So if they don’t ever see a character who experiences incest or violence, then what happens when it happens to them, because it could? It might not happen to them, but it might happen to a friend of theirs or a family member. And so if all they have is the positive, happy stories, then they cannot build resilience. And that is part of what we want to do is help our children build resilience.

JEN: Yeah. And we talk on these episodes a lot about resilience and that is absolutely one of the best ways to do it is to see people share in your struggle and overcoming it and surviving it and making it through. And if we remove all those stories, our kids don’t have those examples of people doing it.

LYNN: And in one regard, I just realized I did not answer your story. ‘Cause what do we do when there’s 1,000 reconsideration forms?

JEN: A thousand different books.

LYNN: A thousand different books? And that is a thing because you’re sitting there going, I loved Banned Book week at the library because we would go through and we’d find all the books that had been banned for any sort of reason and we’d put them in this really large dog crate and we’d have paper tissue fires all around and we’d have all the books. And they’d sit there and go, “Why is The Lorax banned?” Or “Why is Charlotte’s Web banned?” And you’re sitting there going, “Well, The Lorax is banned because in this one logging community they don’t want the kids growing up thinking that logging is bad.” Or, “Charlotte’s Web is because animals are talking and we all know that animals don’t talk.” So some of these books have been challenged for kind of strange reasons. And some of them have been challenged because they’re not for the right audience. As I said, Gender Queer was written for a high school audience. You can talk to highschoolers in a different way than you can talk to elementary school students. And so it’s challenged because of the audience.

JEN: So you kind of touched on this a little bit. But I want to go backwards because nationally – I’m going to say maybe there are other issues that I’m not aware of – but from Benjamin Franklin on down, the library association and the general public have not been okay with book banning. Historically, across the world, it hasn’t gone well when people try to ban books. We have lots of examples of it just not going well. But just the last little bit, we’re seeing a shift in that. And I’m hoping you can kind of start with speaking to the history of the topic and why the American Library Association is fighting so hard against this movement to ban books or remove books or whatever you want to call it.

LYNN: Well, the American Library Association started in 1876. And that was – I don’t know how many history majors we have out there – but the Centennial Fair in Philadelphia was this really huge thing. They had exhibits from all over the world. And they had inventions and they had all this stuff. And so if you think about traveling in 1876, more often than not, you had to either go to a train station and train stations might not have been all over. More than likely, you would’ve had to go from your town to the nearest sea port from your area, take a coastal schooner. And so it was a truly dedicated thing to start the American Library Association. And then, you know they got together, they said what they were going to do. And how they wanted to move forward. Okay, I’m from Connecticut, the Connecticut Library Association started in 1875, but it is easier to get around Connecticut than it is to get around the states in 1876. So there’s my little plug about Connecticut. And so you have from 1876, and they would get together and they would discuss on collection development and how they wanted to do these different things for library management. But they really didn’t start keeping track of banned and challenged books until the 1980s.

JEN: Oh, Okay.

LYNN: Here’s the thing, there’s all kinds of bans and challenges and book burnings and all of these things throughout history. Probably the most famous would’ve been in the 1930s when Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were trying to get all those books by Jews and those liberal Americans and all those other people out of their libraries. And it is very interesting because in 1939, the American Library Association came up with the Library Bill of Rights. And the American Library Association affirms that “All libraries are forums for information and ideas and that the following basic policies should guide their services. Books and other library resources should be provided for the interest and information and enlightenment of all people in the community the library serves. Materials should not be excluded because of the origin, background, or views of those contributing to their creation.” So you hear about this for all the years that the Nazis in the 1930s and their book burnings and everything else. And the American Library Association reacts to that situation by coming up with the Library Bill of Rights. And then when you think about what’s happening in the 1980s, you are getting the discourse in politics is changing. If you look at the political debates of the 1960s, 1970s, everyone is very polite and they are all using the proper format of debate. The give and take and the appropriate amount of time and they’re always using nice titles – you know, Mr. So-and-so and Mr. So-and-so because back in the 1960s, it was all misters – but they were polite and it was a calm debate. In the 1980s, things were getting, shall we say, a little more energetic and not quite so polite. And that is causing more discord in society. And that is when they decided to start recording all the books that have been banned and challenged. In the 1980s, and at this precise moment, I do not have them off the top of my head – but it would’ve been more of the Judy Blumes, Madeleine L’Engle’s The Wrinkle in Time was banned and challenged.

JEN: These were my books, my childhood books.

LYNN: These were your books. So in 1982, the first year of Banned Book Week, was the International Whaling Commission decides to end commercial whaling, Lech Walesa, leader of the outlawed solidarity movement, is released after 11 months in jail, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial is dedicated in Washington D.C., and Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder have Ebony and Ivory. And Magnum P.I. and Night Rider is on TV. So you’re sitting there going this is the 1980s and this is when there is a lot of those, it’s a lot more discord in political discussions and especially in how books are seen. Because if you look through the books in decades, and they can say that, “the books that were most banned in this decade” and that is actually kind of amazing to look at because when you think of 1984, it was published in 1949 and it’s “sexually explicit and pro-communist”, and a lot of people -- I mean, heavens, didn’t we all say we loved 1984 and we all read it again?

JEN: It was a great book.

LYNN: But what I wanted to say, we’ve already agreed that between 5 and 7% of our youth are in the LGBTQ community. And I love to point out that the Supreme Court decision of 2015 or 2016 when they said that same sex marriages would be legal . . .

JEN: Oh, 2015.

LYNN: 2015. So after that, if you looked at the banned book discussions from 2016 and on, that is when you get a lot more of the LGBTQ books and books of people of color. And that is fascinating to me because before 2015, publishers did publish books. But if they knew they weren’t going to be able to be sold in all 50 states, they wouldn’t publish a large run or you’d have to have a very specific publisher who would publish these books on these topics. But after 2015, larger book publishers were willing to take that chance because it’s legal in all 50 states. And that is really when you see the uptick of these books being banned and challenged. And I like to point that out because it’s in our lifetime. It’s just a few years ago. Well, ten years ago, almost, now. How amazing for these children who at one point when they were really young may have thought, “I am never going to be accepted. I’m never going to be able to have a family like everyone else.” And then all of the sudden, they see the rainbow flag on the White House and they can see books with them in it. And this is a healthy community. This is when children and youth can be, “I am just like everyone else.” And you’re going to have good days. You’re going to have bad days. But the dream of every parent is that the good days are going to outweigh the bad days and that they will grow with love and hope in their hearts.

JEN: So, I’ve noticed, and you’re going to give us a broader picture, but I’ve noticed that they’re kind of coming at this, I’m going to call it a fight against books. They’re kind of coming in this fight against books from two different angles. Either trying to just defund libraries in general or removing enough books that the library’s – like one of our local libraries, because of the law where I live, have turned the whole library into an adults only library which is, adults only makes me think of that XXX store where people wear a disguise to go in to get a VHS tape. But they’ve turned it into an adults only library because they can’t afford the government fines if people are challenging the books. So there’s kind of this idea of like actually we’re just the government’s not going to fund the library and then there’s this back door method of fees and trying to ban books and overwhelming libraries or school teachers. If you have to have all your books reviewed, no teacher has time for that, so they’re just going to take the books out of their room. So it’s kind of this two-pronged approach. The question that I’m trying to get to is, can you speak to that process and what you see as the long-term goals from this multi-pronged approach or am I just out in the ballpark with even thinking it’s two different things?

LYNN: No. No. You are absolutely correct. And, I mean, I’m in Connecticut, I do not know what is actually happening in Idaho and I probably should’ve looked that up before I came onto this situation. Because Connecticut, I may live in a little red square, but I’m basically in a blue state. And so that is not my experience. However, it does make perfect sense because in any authoritarian government, what is the first two things that they do? They challenge the universities and schools and education. And they challenge libraries. Because, is it really banning books or is it banning thinking? Because if a child is not raised in a situation where they find comfort in the arms of a parent or a caregiver and having stories read to them, they’re not going to have that love of reading. And if the public library has nothing for them to read because anything that a child could read is “too dangerous”, then you’ve already won. You don’t need to worry about the future because the future is already yours because you’ve taken that away from individuals. Because, face it, books are expensive. When I was a single mother, it was like for me it was a low-cost way of spending a morning when my children were really young because we could go to the public library, they could take out 20 books. I could bring them home. I’d read the 20 books, take them back next week and get another different 20 books. I couldn’t afford to do that by myself. And so it’s like, -- mind you, I mean if you look around my house I have a ton of books, but they’re used books or I’ve gotten them some other places – so it’s one of those things that books are essential if you have a reader, you also have a thinker.

JEN: I think everybody, maybe not, I think most people are familiar with an organization called Moms for Liberty. It’s one of the most organized entities that are opposing books. They started with being mad about COVID masks, but they’ve moved on to curriculum and literature in general. So Moms for Liberty is my example. Do you have other organizations that we need to be listening for their names and be mindful of their goals? Because Moms for Liberty, that sounds like what I want to be, a mom for liberty. But they’re a little deceptive with the naming. What other organizations do we need to be looking out for?

LYNN: Moms for Liberty is the one that is burned into my mind, because as I said, after I left my little library it was people who were associated with Moms for Liberty that raised the kerfuffle about Gender Queer. And they had posters they’d printed out from the Moms for Liberty website. And they had scripts that they read. And it was a very organized assault. I mean, I live in a town of 3,000 people. It’s a small town. So that is the group that I know the most. But I would say any of those groups that are wanting to “go back to the good old days”. But when you think about what people perceive as the “good old days”, how were we treating women? How were we treating people of color? How were we treating people in the LGBTQ community? When you think, because social work and psychiatric individuals use a manual called the DSM, the Diagnostic Manual System or something like that. I mean, it being a homosexual was considered a mental health issue up until the 1970s. It was finally taken out. So when you say the “good old days”, who were they good for? And that is going to be the question I ask you. Could you have a healthy community which is healthy for everyone in that environment?

JEN: Do you track enough to be able to speak to legislation and rules and sorts of parameters that are being set up across the nation? And I’m interested in how the courts are responding to these.

LYNN: Oftentimes, a court will look at a specific work and deal with the idea of, you know, is it pornography? And they go through that checklist of what pornography is. and they’ll say, “Oh, well, no. It’s not pornography.” I mean, I follow what the American Library Association is saying. And every year it gives a new list of what was most banned and challenged last year. But the court cases, that is state-wide issues like when Maus by Art Spiegelman was taken out of the Tennessee Board of Education. And so it was taken from all of the schools. It was written in the 1970s, it’s black and white illustrations. It’s a graphic novel. When my little organizational Freedom to Read group read it, this was the first graphic novel that some of these people had ever read. A graphic novel is like a comic book, Betty and Veronica like we grew up with or Batman or Superman. However, it is bound differently. A comic book is stapled because it’s usually a short thing. And a graphic novel has that glued binding. It is more of a novel because it has, usually, a story to tell. And you can have nonfiction books in graphic novel format. So you’re reading nonfiction about history or whatever. Art Spiegelman written in the 1970s. He was interviewing his father who was a Holocaust survivor. And it was in two volumes. It was really amazingly well done. And one of my retired people in my Freedom to Read group was like, “Oh my gosh. This makes so much sense. I was a businessman in New York and I had two partners who were older than me and they were Holocaust survivors and they acted just like this father, and now I understand why.” So it was an incredible book. And they banned it in Tennessee. It was taken out of all the schools in Tennessee and everyone wanted to read it to find out what it was about and why it was being banned. I mean, yes, there was a nude mouse. And, yes, it’s talking about really sad topics. But they’re true and it needed to be told. So there are some states that want the American Library Association out of their public libraries. They’re trying to kick them out. And to be honest, I can’t even fathom being a librarian without the national professional association to support me because the American Library Association has amazing resources for people. If you are a resident of a town and you think that your library is not doing what they are supposed to be doing, you can reach out to the American Library Association and say, “Our library needs help.” But also for the librarians to say, “Oh my gosh. How am I supposed to respond to this?”

JEN: So are you at all aware of the recent Chevron overturning in SCOTUS? And do you think this will affect the American Library Association?

LYNN: I have heard about it on NPR, but I really don’t know that much about it.

JEN: I’m not a legal expert. My understanding is that all of the agencies that regulate everything have now less authority to regulate than the courts. So instead of the EPA telling us what’s bad for the environment, the courts have a higher voice.

LYNN: Okay.

JEN: I was just curious.

LYNN: But it would make sense. There are some individuals who want to take the voice away from an organization like the American Library Association. It’s really funny because you’re either the “old lady with the bun and the cardigan” or you are the “rebel who’s grooming young children and forcing them to read books they don’t want to read”. Now, if anyone who has a child has ever thought about this, it’s like children read what they want to read. And they don’t read what they don’t want to read. I mean, you can put a book in front of a child and if they don’t want to read it, they are not going to read it. But if you have an organization that is seen, and American Library Association is not a political organization. And yet there are those who perceive it as a very liberal organization. And they’re not saying that all books are for all people. They are saying that if you are a parent, you have the authority for you to choose what your child reads. But you don’t have the authority to tell other people’s children what to read. And for me, that makes perfect sense because if you are a parent, you know what is best for your child. That is the job of the parent and not the job of the librarian.

JEN: So if we have listeners who are concerned about the effort to remove books from libraries whether it’s a state level or a city level or a school district, do you have suggestions for how they could support the librarians?

LYNN: See if your local library has a Friends of the Library group because different libraries have different ways. Talk to your library director. Ask them if they are receiving these challenges. Ask them if they need people to go to the library board meeting or to go to some kind of political group or town functionary group. I don’t know what you have in your town. But, if you feel comfortable doing it, maybe speak at public comment at your library to say, “Hey, I support the library. They have amazing programs. I’m always able to find something to read there. And they are professional staff of merit.” Write a letter. Have it be added to the communication of the library board minutes. See if there is a local group in your area that is trying to ban something. And if they are presenting forms for reconsideration, then bring in a group of people who can support that book. I think that’s the great thing about having that Freedom to Read group because I had 16 to 20 people who had read Gender Queer  and thought it was an amazing book. So when it was brought up by the Moms for Liberty saying, “It’s a horrible book.” I had 16 or 20 people saying, “It was a great book. What was your problem with it?” and that is the thing because oftentimes the people who enjoy reading books are not necessarily the people who enjoy talking in front of large groups when there are very angry people around. And that is one of the things you have to say, “Okay. I’m doing this for a purpose. I’m doing this for a purpose. I need to support the wonderful library staff because they are amazing and they probably went into libraries not necessarily to speak to the gathering horde that has pitch forks.” So most of the librarians I know, man, if you go against something they’ll be very polite. But if you challenge what’s in their collection, because their collection is sort of like their babies. And librarians build the collection very thoughtfully. And they want to make sure that they have things in their collection for everyone. Now, one of the things that a person might do is go to their public library and ask to see the collection development policy. Because the collection development policy, in theory, if it’s a policy that’s sort of been templated from the American Library Association, they’ll say, “Our demographics are such so we’re going to have X amount of money for adults and X amount of money for youth and children. And X amounts are going to be for nonfictions. And Y amount’s going to be for fiction.” They have it all separated to say, okay – so they don’t spend all their money on adult fiction because there does need to be nonfiction and there does need to be children’s books and some kind of allotment for downloadable services or DVDs or however people get their streaming now-a-days. It usually is written down in a policy. And if you go and you say, “Hey. I want to see your collection development policy.” It is going to incorporate the idea of the reconsideration form. More than likely they’ll have a copy of the Library Bill of Rights as part of the Collection Development Form. So then you can say, “Well, according to your collection Development Policy, it says you’re going to have everything in your collection and you don’t care who it’s about or who wrote it.” So that could be part. See if they have their Collection Development Policy written down or on their website. See if they have a copy of the reconsideration form readily available. And see if they encourage people to follow the policy because one of the things that happened in my town when they challenged Gender Queer is they didn’t follow the reconsideration policy. They went to the first selectman and he demanded it was removed. And it was like, “No. That’s not the policy.”

JEN: Before I let you go, I want to ask if there’s anything else that you think our listeners need to understand that I forgot to ask you about?

LYNN: One of the things I wanted to talk about was something that was created in the 1950s. And that is the Freedom to Read Statement which was first adopted in June of 1953. And this was during the time of the red scare and communists were everywhere. The Freedom to Read is essential to our democracy. It is continuously under attack. Private groups and public authorities and various parts of the country are working to remove or limit access to reading materials to censor content in schools to label controversial views, to distribute lists of objectionable books or authors and to purge libraries. These actions apparently rise from a view that our national tradition of free expression is no longer valid, that censorship and suppression are needed to counter threats to safety or national security as well as to avoid the subversion of politics and the corruption of morals. We as individuals devoted to reading and as librarians and publishers responsible for disseminating ideas wish to assert the public interest in the preservation of the freedom to read. And that can be found on the American Library Association Advocacy page. But that is just so important.

JEN: That’s actually really beautiful.

LYNN: You know, we think it’s new. But it’s not new. It’s been going around for what, 70 years?

JEN: I want to thank you, Lynn, so much for coming and sharing your experience and your wisdom with us to help us understand a little bit better what’s happening in our kids’ schools and in our public libraries so that we are prepared to push back and protect our access, and our communities’ access, to information. That really does make us all just better. So thank you.

LYNN: You are welcome. I’m glad I was able to be here.

JEN: Thanks for joining us here In the Den. While we have you, we want to let you know about the inaugural LUV Conference coming up this October 18th and 19th in Salt Lake City, Utah. The conference is all about learning and connecting and creating a more supportive environment for LGBTQ+ individuals and their families. Get more information at www.luvwithoutlimits.org . That’s L-U-V- without limits.org. Or find the link in the show notes under the links from the show. We hope to see you there.

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Sara LaWall

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