Meet Liz Welch

Mama Dragons has a new Executive Director! Liz Welch brings new leadership, new enthusiasm, and new ideas to Mama Dragons, so we thought it was important to introduce this new Executive Director to our podcast listeners and give her a chance to share her vision for Mama Dragons in her own words as she joins Jen in this week’s episode of In the Den.  

Special Guest: Liz Welch

Liz comes to Mama Dragons with extensive advocacy and lobbying experience in LGBTQ+ and religious freedom at the federal, state, and local levels.  While at the ACLU, Liz led a National Faith Coalition that supported efforts to advance protections for LGBTQ+ communities while preserving the rights of faith communities. She also co-facilitated a transgender education and advocacy project, working to train and support trans activists in advocating for their rights across the country.

Liz's work is heavily influenced by the words of Bishop Desmond Tutu, “There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they are falling in.” Liz has a passion for creating a community around complex issues and lifting the voices of those who are most impacted, especially in places where “courageous conversations” can change minds and open hearts. 

In addition to her work on LGBTQ+ issues, Liz is a trained mediator, experienced facilitator, and event coordinator for everything from hyper-local Pride events to coordinating the rallies at the Supreme Court of the United States for the biggest cases of our time. Liz has spent the majority of her life living in the Rocky Mountains while working at the national level.  She currently lives in a self-renovated old home in Billings, Montana, with her three obstinate hounds and an extensive garden. She is the proud mother to Mariah, who is a public defender and an avid baker.

Links from the Show:

• Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org 
• Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons 
• Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/ 
• LUV Conference info: https://www.luvwithoutlimits.org/ 
• Open to All Coalition: https://www.opentoall.com/ 

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Transcript

JEN: Hello and welcome to In The Den with Mama Dragons. I’m your host, Jen. This podcast was created to walk and talk with you through the journey of raising happy, healthy, and productive LGBTQ humans. Thanks for listening. We’re glad you’re here.

Some of our listeners might not know that Mama Dragons has a new Executive Director. And new leadership brings enthusiasm and new ideas. Our team thought it was important to introduce this new Executive Director to you all and give her a chance to share her vision. Especially from her own mouth! Liz Welch comes to Mama Dragons with extensive advocacy and lobbying experience in LGBTQ+ and religious freedom at the Federal, State, and Local levels. While at the ACLU, Liz led a National Faith Coalition that supported efforts to advance protections for LGBTQ+ communities while preserving the rights of faith communities. She co-facilitated a Transgender Education and Advocacy Project working to train and support Trans activists in advocating for their rights across the country. Liz's work is heavily influenced by the words of Bishop Desmond Tutu: “There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they are falling in.” 

Liz has a passion for creating a community around complex issues and lifting the voices of those who are most impacted, especially in places where courageous conversations can change minds and open hearts. In addition to her work on LGBTQ+ issues, Liz is a trained mediator, experienced facilitator, and event coordinator for everything from hyper-local Pride events to coordinating the rallies at the Supreme Court of the United States for the biggest cases of our time. Liz has spent the majority of her life living in the Rocky Mountains while working at the national level. She currently lives in a self-renovated old home in Billings MT with her two obstinate hounds and an extensive garden. She is the proud mother to Mariah who is a public defender and an avid baker. Welcome In the Den, Liz!

LIZ: Thanks for having me, Jen. This is exciting to be here.

JEN: We are so glad to have you here and I’ve been really excited for our listeners to catch the vision you have been sharing with some of us behind the scenes. I want to start off, though, by discussing you as a person. We would like to get to know you, get to know who you are. Can you offer us a little biography about you?

LIZ: Well, personally, I’ve grown up between Colorado and Montana for years. I went to the University of Montana here in Missoula, Montana. And traveled many years after that doing corporate sales for beauty companies and working in a lot of different jobs that were fun. But when I really wanted to dial back in on life and things that matter, I came back to Montana because I have a deep commitment to working and living in rural spaces. And so I came to Billings and this is where I’ve raised my daughter who is now 27 years old and is a public defender up in Missoula, Montana. I’ve been part of the advocate community locally here for most of my life on one issue or another. And I just love living in spaces where sometimes the work is a little bit harder but the people are a heck of a lot friendlier.

JEN: So did you grow up in a religious community yourself?

LIZ: I did not. My mother is a hard-core atheist. And it’s ironic because I actually found my way to faith through working on LGBTQ issues. I worked with a lot of faith and clergy around a project called The Fair is Fair Montana Campaign which was about relationships recognition in Montana. And working with those faith leaders really made me see the value of talking about things that we have in common and shared goals and things that matter across the board no matter if you’re a person of faith or not. And it really led me to have a deeper appreciation for that type of work. And then when I went to national, I coordinated a national faith collision that was working around LGBTQ+ issues. And that’s actually where I first heard about Mama Dragons. Neca Allgood was in that coalition and I got to know about the work of Mama Dragons and heard the stories and really got a big appreciation for that.

JEN: Did you have siblings growing up?

LIZ: I have half brothers and half sisters. But I operate like I’m an only child for the most part because I’m stubborn that way. But I do have two brothers who are Indigenous and live out in Oregon. I have a half sister who is, ironically, she is 8 months older than my daughter. And I’m close with all of them and I love them all dearly.

JEN: Fantastic. So your work history, and including some of the things you just mentioned, you have a pretty extensive history in advocacy and education in your past. Why Mama Dragons? Why did you choose to join us?

LIZ: Working at the ACLU, I recognized that a lot of the national organizations and the larger media and the conversations were more about places that are more progressive or liberal or big cities. And they tend to leave out the rural spaces and the communities that probably need more help than anywhere. And that was where I really felt like Mama Dragons was a unique group because you all are from a more conservative background that have had to really work with issues that are outside the norm of what you think of conservative spaces. You really have to confront your faith and your community and the ideas that you might be raised with when you start looking about accepting families and children that are LGBTQ. And I like those moments because that’s when there is so much transformational change that can happen, because when you really have to address what’s in your heart and what matters. I knew the history and I think the thing that really struck me, especially coming from working at the national level at the ACLU, I knew that Mama Dragons, there were parents who are emotionally and intellectually and spiritually confronting the way that they had grown up and things that they have been lifelong learners of. And I love where we can actually see how huge changes can come when you change people’s hearts and minds. And I wanted to be part of that. But I also wanted to be part of that community because I, myself, am a Mama Dragon. I have a child who is bisexual.

JEN: In your vision for Mama Dragons, when we’ve talked in the past, you’re pretty clear that you want to maintain what is working well for Mama Dragons. What are the programs and services that you see continuing into the next phase of the organization?

LIZ: I think that when a new person comes into a leadership position like an executive director, people tend to get a little scared that we’re going to uproot everything and change things. And change is scary but it’s also good. However, I want to be true to the mission of Mama Dragons and its rich history. Celeste, the former executive director, and the amazing constellation of volunteer leaders over the years have built out a vast network of support and education. We’re not going to divert any energy away from those core programs. As the membership grows, it’s important that we continue providing these programs around educating those new to Mama Dragons about the basic LGBTQ+ issues, providing suicide prevention traning, having options for affordable group therapy, and then the tangible hugs that are given my our give-back programs like Paper Hugs, Wrapped in Hugs, and Embracelets. I actually find those programs to be something that is so core to doing real advocacy work because mutual care is something that isn’t talked about very often. It is something that communities of color are really good at doing. It is something that faith communities are really good at doing. And it is something that progressive groups tend to not be as good at doing. And so it’s really important to me that we continue to embrace those projects. And I don’t see any changes there. There are things that we have done in the past, like Pride and community gatherings, things that had been paused for a while. And I am bringing those back because that is so core. There will always be Mamas who want to go out and be in the communities and show their love and support in tangible ways. And I think that that’s a big part of who Mama Dragons is and should continue.

JEN: So let’s stop a little bit and talk some more because there was a great deal of concern from a lot of the members about Pride and the little pause button. Can you talk about how you’re planning to participate in Pride as an organization moving forward?

LIZ: You know, I think that the pause on it was really around Celeste giving me space to look at all the programs. And that really, when I came in, I looked at it and for me as someone who started as a grassroots organizer, that was both where you got out and you met people, where you brought them into the fold, and it’s also where you got a lot of the energy that you needed to just continue on what you were doing. And I think that that’s core to who Mama Dragons is. It’s where we started. It’s part of that origin story. But I also think that there’s a conversation to be had about how we make it safe moving forward. So, as I’m reevaluating all of these things about how we can make it safer for our membership, Pride is one of those things I want to look at. I think some of the events of past years and the proliferation of counter-protests have made me want to just make sure that as we’re doing it, we’re providing specific training on de-escalating things we can and can’t do for personal ecology health. COVID made us reexamine what it looks like to actually go out and hug people. And I think those are all things that I’m looking at as we’re moving forward. I don’t have all the pieces put together yet. But I’m committed to make sure that Mama Dragons is back out there. And that we have more regional meetings and that we’re actually creating more opportunities for engagement between Mama Dragons. And that being said, there’s going to be opportunities that I know we’re going to talk about on this, but things like our Conference where Mama Dragons can come together. And I’ll just say it right here, there are cases in front of the Supreme Court where I know I’m going to be standing out on the steps in front of the Supreme Court the day that the trans healthcare ban is heard. And I would like to invite other Mama Dragons to come and join me that day. So I want to create opportunities for Mama Dragons to get together and support each other and advocate with each other and show their love in the community.

JEN: So, since you mentioned it here, let’s talk about the upcoming conference. Mama Dragons has never had an in-person conference before. We started planning one right when COVID hit and so it got canceled. This will be our first conference ever. And a lot of us are pretty excited about it. Talk to us about that conference.

LIZ: So the LUV Conference will be in Salt Lake City, Utah in October. We’re looking at some great key-note speakers that will be there. We are looking at some great informational sessions on a variety of issues, including parenting a trans child, how to advocate for yourself as well as your child, suicide intervention, talking about issues around neurodivergence. There will be sessions on Advocacy, everything from how to talk to your family about your LGBTQ+ child, to taking it to the next step and advocating in schools and your community and then also how to take that one step further and do things like media training and how to have courageous conversations in other spaces. And how to talk to the media and how to tell your own story in impactful ways no matter who the audience is. I think there’s just so many opportunities here to really teach moms how to target-in those conversations, that they’ve been having anyways, to really change hearts and minds. So we’ll see a lot of those things at the conference.

JEN: Okay. So I want to kind of divide this next chunk into what your vision is for the future of Mama Dragons and hopefully it makes sense if I start us off with the Mama Dragons mission statement. Which is that We exist to support, educate, and empower the mothers of LGBTQ+ children. So can we start by your plans, the things you kind of would organize under the realm of supporting and educating these mothers? What can we expect to see coming up?

LIZ: So when it pertains to supporting mothers, I think one of the greatest things about Mama Dragons is that we have the peer-to-peer support groups. And I really want to make sure that those are solid moving forward. We are in very interesting times as more and more LGBTQ kids are coming out, especially trans kids. And there is so many challenges against those kids in this world. And I want to make sure that the peer-to-peer support groups stay in place. I want to make sure as we’re doing that, that we’re also doing it in a thoughtful manner where we’re doing some anti-racist framework with a lens for how we work and grow to welcome more people of color into our community. I want to make sure that we are leaning into the diversity of parents that are in there. There’s so many parents who are coming in who are gender diverse themselves or who have neurodivergent tendencies. And I want to make sure that we’re truly creating a space that is open and a learning opportunity for them in a safe space. One of my favorite things as I tell people about Mama Dragons is saying there are questions that we all have to ask when we first find out about our kids. And some of them are not necessarily easy to ask in a lot of spaces. And I want to make sure that within our community, you can say those things that are your concerns that are unique to parenting an LGBTQ kid. And so I want to make sure that we’re doing that. I also want to make sure that we’re providing parents with tools. You will see coming soon on our website, we are creating a resource page that will help parents find information that they need around parenting things like gender marker changes and name changes and where to access certain care or what it looks like to move to a state, what their laws might be there and what might be helpful to know before you make some decisions about changing locations. We’re really lucky. We’re partnering with a large group of national partners who are opening their vaults of education and knowledge to us that we’ll be able to use both for support and for education. And so that page will be coming soon on the website. And I’m super, super excited because I think that’s one of those things you can go out on the internet and Google all you want to find information but sometimes it’s nice to have fully vetted information that is accurate and up-to-date. And I think that that’s really important as we move forward. And along those lines, I think it’s really important that we’re partnering with all these other national organization because they provide a continually updated version of the most recent talking points or the most recent studies or the most valuable things that you need to know to be able to make the decisions about how to take care of your family and move forward. And so I’m really excited to bring that.

JEN: I love that idea of tapping into what other organizations are already doing well and partnering with them and offering back what we do really well to kind of build momentum in general. You didn’t mention this, so I’m going to ask specifically about it. There’s a new Facebook group coming that exists in this support and educate area. Can you talk about that?

LIZ: Well, there’s actually two Facebook Groups coming.

JEN: Oh, two. Okay.

LIZ: There are two. There is one for gender diverse parents so it will be a space for parents who are nonbinary, trans, and gender diverse because there are unique parenting challenges when you belong to that group and I want to make sure that they have a space to talk about their challenges and what they’re looking at moving forward. But our other one is, I think it’s really important in this movement, even while we’re creating safe spaces for brand new Mama Dragons to come in and be able to ask those questions, we are also creating a space where we can talk about politics and we can talk about policies and we can talk about the challenges that are coming our way that will affect our families and places where decisions are made. So we are opening a Facebook page up for people who want to address some of the more challenging work that is coming in a full-out way. They want to know where policies are being enacted. They want to know how they can engage on these issues. They can talk about the things that are coming down the pike. And I think it’s going to be an exciting space. Challenging because Mama Dragons cover a broad spectrum of people. So I’m sure that those who moderate it and participate in it will definitely hear a little spicier version of Mama Dragons. But I think it’s valuable if we’re talking about having courageous conversations out in the world, it’s important that we’re able to do that within our own community. And so, when we finally open it, it will be moderated but it has a little different version of moderation because you can talk about things in a meaningful way. That being said, I do want to say that we are a 501c3 organization and while it will be more political in nature, the moderators, the people who represent Mama Dragons, we cannot specifically say or do anything that will apply an endorsement or a criticism of a candidate running for office currently. That leaves a lot of room to talk about politics.

JEN: Yeah.

LIZ: It’s just that we won’t endorse or criticize a candidate specifically.

JEN: Okay. And you just used the phrase “Courageous Conversations” and learning about those sorts of things. Tell what that idea means to you. What do you mean when you’re talking about that?

LIZ: So courageous conversations is a term that is used around confronting racism in the workplace. It’s been used by very specific groups. But it’s also culturally become a larger conversation about being able to actually talk about those things that matter and doing so on issues that may be controversial to some or might be painful. But it’s really about having an open and honest dialogue where we’re calling into the room the aspects of confronting our faith or trauma that’s caused by a particular group, or even conversations about politics and things that are uncomfortable. I think it’s important that we have those conversations. When I was working years ago, it was always, “You never talk about sex, religion, or politics ever.” And I think that did a disservice to an entire generation of people because those are the things that make up our life. And if you don’t know how to have a civil conversation with people, how do you change the world? How do you have conversations about things that are going to matter, especially in places where policies are passed or where big decisions are being made. And so when I say “Courageous Conversations,” I’m talking about having conversations about things that a lot of people go, “Oh, no. That’s controversial.” Or “Oh, no. That’s off limits.” Mama Dragons have those kinds of conversations all the time. They’ve had to have them in their homes. They’ve had to have them in their churches. They’ve had to have them in their schools, their communities, and I think we’ve got to get to a point where we’re not like, “Oh, nobody talks to Crazy Old Uncle Joe anymore because he’s just that kind of person.” We’ve got to be able to build some bridges moving forward because we have to make change. And that was one of the things that really struck me from working on the Same Sex Marriage campaign was, once you knew someone who was gay and started talking about it, it tended to change a lot of people’s minds. And we have to have those kinds of conversations where we can tell three people about our own personal experience and how it affected our family and the things that we confronted. And then encourage them to talk about their values and what matters to them. And you find common ground when you do that. And that’s where I really think the value of this lies.

JEN: I love that. And I think Mama Dragons is poised to be able to do it well. A lot of us nationwide were raised with the idea that we don’t make waves and you don’t bring it up and you don’t cause contention and you keep the peace. And it’s not working out well. Finding ways to be able to talk to each other, especially in social media land where the algorithms feed us what they think we already believe and it’s so easy to block people that you just disagree with. It creates these echo chambers that I think have been really detrimental. Before I move on, though, can you talk about the Open to All Coalition?

LIZ: I can. So the Open to All Coalition is a really interesting group of people. It started around the Masterpiece Cake Case. And it was a coalition of a lot of national partners who wanted to create a space for business owners to talk about why if you are open to serve one, you should be open to serve all. Which is where Open to All comes from. It started with a bunch of businesses that were willing to say, “When our doors are open, we serve everyone.” And from there, it moved into conversations about, “It’s not just about sexual orientation. It’s also about gender identity. It’s also about racism. It’s also about ability and disability.” And so Open to All is really is about making sure that when you say that you’re opening your doors, you’re opening it to everybody. We’re really lucky. I worked with them when I was at ACLU at the beginning. And we’re really lucky that we’ve joined the Open to All Coalition now as one of their nonprofit members. There are opportunities for people to tell their stories to corporations which, you know, sometimes it sounds like corporations. But we have to remember, those businesses have people that work within their doors and they are also moving on a trajectory towards learning and growth and thinking more. And so there’s opportunities to not just give back and work with those folks, but also to have them work with us and to have them show that they, one, support the work. But there’s places within that, like Yelp. Yelp on their app actually has a thing that you can go in – say I’m going to Chicago. I can toggle in on Open to All and I can see what businesses have truly have committed to be Open to All businesses. A lot of those will also show if they have gender neutral bathrooms. They will show their commitment to making sure that it is accessible to people. And I think that’s a great value as people move or travel to be able to find safe spaces for themselves and their families. So we’ll be part of that as well. There’s a lot of things that we can learn working with Open to All.

JEN: That’s fantastic. So, from talking to you over the past couple of months, I see a ton of upcoming opportunities in that last area. We talked about supporting and educating, but the other half of that conversation is about empowering. Can you share some of your plans for empowering the organization, or really the members of the organization, to enter spaces and advocate for their kids?

LIZ: Oh, boy. You just opened a wide door.

JEN: This is a big one.

LIZ: This is a big one. So, the first thing I want to say when I’m thinking about this is that I really want the Mama Dragon community to know that in these times when things are scary and there’s all sorts of changes that are heading our way, I want them to know that we are in it with them and that we are truly standing up for them and their children and their families whether or not they have the personal capacity or willingness to do so or to do more than they already are. Sometimes it’s just enough that you get out of bed and face the day and that you’re there for your kid when something happens. And I think that’s more common when people first come to Mama Dragons. But then, once you’ve learned how to navigate that and you navigate your own journey while your kids are finding their way through theirs, I think sometimes that thing is ,”What more can I do?” And whether that’s in two hours a week, or you want to do more. There’s so many ways that you can participate. And I think that is one of the things I want to do is I want to make sure people can move up this ladder of engagement. So if they have just enough energy to just make it through the day, that’s great. We’re here. Do you need a paper hug? Do you need to be wrapped in hugs? What do you need? But then when you get on the other end of that spectrum and you’re like, “I’m angry. I want to make sure this isn’t happening to my kid and to other kids coming behind us.” We are going to be doing more opportunities for people to participate. So, what you will see in the future is you will see – and I’m leaning into this podcast because we’re doing a lot on the podcast too so thank you for that – But I think in the near future you’re actually going to see a conversation about Project 2025 which has so many implications for our families. But it’s not just hearing about it on the podcast. We want to make sure that people can hear about it, we have a wonderful person who is going to present about it. But we’re also going to have talking points and tool kits and ways that you can engage and things that you can do on the other side of that because I want it to be something that you can engage with as much as you want to or as little as you need to to survive. And so you’ll see that coming down the road. You’ll also see opportunities, we’re going to have someone from the ACLU speaking to the case going up to SCOTUS around the Transgender Health Care Bans. And with that, there will be opportunities for some trainings around how do you talk to the media, how do you create your own story, how do you write op-eds. And, on the other end of that, how do you protect yourself when you go public with your story because sometimes that’s the scariest part. It’s like, “Oh my gosh. I’m going to expose my kid in a way beyond what they have to do just to survive and to thrive. I’m going to put them out there and myself out there.” And I think that it’s important that we also give you resources on that as well. So you’ll see that coming with toolkits and trainings and opportunities there. I think there’s an opportunity to, like I said a little bit ago, to join me on the steps of the Supreme Court. It’s actually not the steps, it’s the area in front of it, to show that Mama Dragons is standing up for our children and that we’re here and we’re ready to fight for our kids. I think there will also be opportunities to do advanced trainings in facilitating conversations in the places where decisions are being made that affect your family whether that is you’re doing Tell Three Campaigns where you’re telling three people who might be a little bit of a stretch for you about why it matters. Or whether it’s actively going out and finding media opportunities for you to speak. We’ve got some really unique opportunities coming our way in the partnerships that we have, the National organizations now that we’ll be able to plug people in on that and I want to make sure that people are prepared. Again, how do you tell your story based on who your audience is? How do you change hearts and minds? And how do you protect yourself on the other end? I think creating that ecosystem of care is truly important to me. So it’s not just that. It’s after you’ve done it and you come back and you’re like, “Oh my God. I’m getting beat up on by whatever.” I want to make sure that our core programs like Wrapped in Hugs and Paper Hugs are there to support you in that too and that you’re not feeling alone when you do put yourself out there for something. I think there's so many opportunities to bring the whole organization into this work in ways that support the parents who are having those experiences.

JEN: It’s interesting and I love that. I think we hear over and over from so many of the parents who join our groups how alone they feel. They suddenly feel alone. They’ve lost their support networks. They’ve lost maybe their faith community. Maybe they’ve lost their extended family or their neighbors aren’t associating with them anymore. And so we’re kind of creating that support but then it kind of falls a little bit, it kind of ends there. We go out, we talk to your legislators, we talk to our neighbors and we get a lot of pushback and then we’re kind of, again, in that alone space. And all of these things are backing that up to provide support in that next stage. So I’m super excited about all of that.

LIZ: Again, I think it’s important, especially with what we see circling around us, that we have communities of care and mutual support. And I realize that there are a lot of people out there that are saying, “I want peace. I don’t want this.” Well, peace implies safety. And peace implies mutual care. And peace implies a lot of other things are in existence. And so it’s always one of those things where I say, “Pray for peace and work for justice.” Because it’s critical in this moment that all of those pieces are there if we want to be marching forward. And I think Mama Dragons is uniquely positioned in that space to actually care about each other and support each other and to be able to come back and say some of those hard things.

JEN: I love that. One of the sad things about life, a sad reality is that everything costs money. And non-profit organizations are absolutely included in that. They need money in order to accomplish their goals. Can you speak a little bit to how you are hoping to fund these future projects and programs?

LIZ: I am happy to talk about that because it’s a big part of the work. You know, I think one of the challenges we have is that so many people actually think that Mama Dragons just exists as a Facebook group. And so they see the peer-to-peer support, they see the Wrapped in Hugs. They see those things as vital to being a Mama Dragon. But they don’t really think about all the things that have to go on behind the scenes to make sure those happen. There’s postage to be paid to get those things out to people. There are an immense amount of work by a lot of volunteers but it still takes a lot of technology costs to pay for that. The trainings will take quite a bit of money to pay for that. And then also we want to expand our Parachute Learning Program. It’s really important. It’s a pretty basic learning, but we really need one that’s about gender identity in our work. And so we really need to get that up and running. And that is going to take a significant amount of money. Plus, as we start going back to doing events and doing more regional events, we want to be supporting people. And I also want to look at how we can support these volunteers who are doing this work. We have people who volunteer anywhere from 2 hours a week to 25 hours a week. And I’d like to professionalize this to where we’re actually recognizing their labor. But that’s not going to happen tomorrow. And it’s not going to happen without funds. I never want the programs to be driven by what we can fundraise off of. I want the fundraising to support the programs because they’re really good programs that will impact lives. And I think that that’s sometimes a challenge, especially in a group that’s our size. And I think it’s important that, as we’re talking about what programs sustain people and how we can grow and be the next evolution of Mama Dragons, that we’re going to have to do some fundraising. We’re going to have to apply for grants. And, I’m going to have to ask for help from the Mama Dragons community. I think sometimes people don’t know how they can give back to us. And I see people who are, “Hey, I want to do a fundraiser for a great LGBTQ group.” And I’m like, “Great. How about Mama Dragons?”

JEN: How about us?

LIZ: If we have sustained you in a way, please help us sustain ourselves so that we can continue to pass that onto the next group of mothers and parents who need it and then grow from there. I think it’s important for people to realize, “I see all your t-shirts. I love them. They’re beautiful.” “Did you know we sell merchandise and that that helps fund our work? Supporting us by buying our merchandise helps.” There’s a new thing on the website that has, I think it’s like eight different ways that you can help contribute to Mama Dragons, whether it’s doing a peer-to-peer fundraiser or donating in either celebration or in memory of somebody, or asking your employer if they can match your donation. All of those things will make a difference in how far we can take this in the future.

JEN: Sometimes I think also listeners – not listeners, people in general – when it comes to non-profits, you think my $5 doesn’t matter or my $10 doesn’t matter. But after working with Mama Dragons now for a dozen years, I see how those $5 and $10 and the $20 here and there when people feel moved to do that, really do make a difference. And I don’t think I recognized that before.

LIZ: You know, it’s funny because I had a conversation with a friend who said, “There are two times that it drives me crazy when people say my contribution won’t make a difference. And that’s when it comes to donating and to voting because there are so many people who are like, ‘My one vote won’t make a difference.’” But it can. I’ve worked on campaigns that were won by four votes. And I personally know that I drove in six people to the polls that day. So that makes a difference. And when it comes to contributing, contributions that are given in tiny amounts over – it’s just reoccurring like every month. It’s something that would be like a coffee out of your pocket – can add up over a year. And if there’s enough of those, that can fund a program. And so it’s that power of organizing. I don’t know if people have seen it, but there’s a graphic that I love that has a big shark that is chasing a bunch of fish. And then on the next picture it is the fish that are all organized into the shape of a shark and now they’re bigger than the shark and are chasing the shark. And that’s how I like to think about that: contributions, whether it’s with your vote or your time or your money, is when you all gather together and you’re moving in the same direction, it can have a bigger impact.

JEN: Before we close, I want to make sure that we hear everything that you want us to hear. So, before I close us out, do you have anything else you want us to know about you or your hopes and your passion moving forward in this role?

LIZ: I really appreciate that question. Coming to Mama Dragons, I’m not the kind of a leader that wants it to be all about me. I’m one of those people, I like working behind the scenes. I like lifting up other people’s voices. I don’t ever intend to be that person that is going to be out leading the charge on every single thing or making it about me. That’s just not me. I really believe in the power of the collective. And I really believe that what the people who belong to Mama Dragons and identify so closely with both the work and the promise of it see is that I am opening the doors for their voices at every opportunity. I think it’s important that we peel open those doors with every connection I have, to make sure that those voices are heard in all the places where decisions are made that will directly impact their families. And I think when we do that, whether that means your neighbor’s house or the school board or whatever that looks like, I want to make sure that Mama Dragons have an opportunity to be seen, and to be loved, to be appreciated, and to advocate for their kids who need the same things. My biggest passion is about empowering people to be who they are. And I think that we have a unique opportunity to do incredible things in spaces that a lot of other people aren’t paying attention to and that there’s some serious power in that. And that all lies in the hands of Mama Dragons. We can make change. We can impact the lives of your children and a lot of other children. And I think the time is right now. And it’s important.

JEN: So I said that was the last question, but now I have to ask another one.

LIZ: Okay.

JEN: Because we talk a lot about conversations and we’ve been talking about empowering and we’ve been talking about advocacy, I’m hoping that for our quiet parents, our quiet listeners, those who are particularly introverted or particularly shy or maybe for health reason aren’t able to be out and about as much as they might like to, what ideas, opportunities do you see for those people, those individuals?

LIZ: You know, I think that talking about levels of participation and the ability to even participate – I know some powerful advocates that work within the disability world and they said, “Nobody creates spaces for us.” I think it’s important as we’re doing this that for those quiet people that can’t, even having conversations or sharing how other people are doing that work in your own circles or even showing your own children how people are actually there and standing up for these things, has a lot of impact because I think it can be pretty isolating if you’re in a space where your neighborhood doesn’t feel safe or your don’t feel safe in your school and you feel like, “Nobody is there for me.” I think to even be able to share those stories and show your child and yourself that there are people who really do care, that’s a powerful thing in itself. I think that the opportunities to write op-eds or letters to the editor or those type of things are also there where you don’t have to speak. But sometimes it’s just being able to know that other people can, and holding up their voices can make a big difference.

JEN: You made me think of the caretakers. And I am a big fan of the caretakers when you go to an event or you’re speaking, there’s always somebody who shows up with water bottles that you didn’t think of. Or someone that has a tray of cookies because they don’t dare talk to the legislature, but they will give you a cookie if you’ve done it. What you were saying made me think of those people, I think Sara Burlingame, from a previous episode, I think she used the metaphor of casseroles, right? Like, show up with a casserole and maybe that’s your contribution. But my brain goes to cookies instead. Whatever it is.

LIZ: I’ve always said, you can always tell the allies because they’re the ones clearing the pizza boxes at the end of the night.

JEN: Exactly. Those people I think are so powerful and amazing and that’s what you made me think of. I’m hoping that, listening to all of this, our listeners can feel the energy and the enthusiasm, the opportunities that are coming, that are building, that are growing right now behind the scenes. There are a lot of ways to get involved. Lots of spaces to volunteer, lots of ways to contribute, and the work right now seems almost endless so there’s room for everybody. 

I want to thank you, Liz, for taking the time and coming to share this with us in person. I know you have been drinking from a fire hose the last couple of months. And so thanks for giving us a little window of that time.

LIZ: I’m excited to move forward with all of you. I did look to see what a group of dragons are and it’s a Thunder. I think a Thunder is the greatest word that we can talk about creating right now and I’m just excited to do this work with you all.

JEN: Thank you, Liz. You’re so awesome. Thanks for joining us In the Den. While we have you, we want to let you know about the inaugural LUV Conference coming up this October 18th and 19th in Salt Lake City, Utah. The conference is all about learning and connecting and creating a more supportive environment for LGBTQ+ individuals and their families. Get more information at www.luvwithoutlimits.org. That’s L-U-V- without limits.org. Or find the link in the show notes under the links from the show. We hope to see you there. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please tell your friends, and take a minute to leave a positive rating and review wherever you listen. Good reviews make us more visible and help us reach more folks who could benefit from listening. And if you’d like to help Mama Dragons in our mission to support, educate, and empower the parents of LGBTQ children, please donate at mamadragons.org or click the donate link in the show notes. For more information on Mama Dragons and the podcast, you can follow us on Instagram or Facebook or visit our website at mamadragons.org.