The Election Is Over–Now What?

The outcome of the recent presidential election has left many of us reeling and feeling concern for our LGBTQ+ community, especially for our queer children. Many of us in the Mama Dragons community are already feeling the impact as our children share with us their fears and real-life interactions at school, work, and in the community. So, what can we do? This week In the Den, Sara meets with Allen Morris from The National LGBTQ Task Force to talk about actions we can take right now to protect our children and their futures.

Special Guest: Allen Morris 

Allen (he/his/gladiator) was born and raised in Beaumont, TX. Graduate of Regent University School of Law (M.A.) and Grand Canyon University (B.S.), Allen is a Policy and Government Affairs gladiator with over a decade of broad-based public policy, immigration, criminal, and human rights experience across the legal, corporate, government, and non-profit sectors.

Allen’s primary goal is collaborating with leaders to implement substantive change to ensure legislation that serves all in need of protection and permanent solutions is achieved. Allen brings an upbeat, positive perspective into the role of being a fearless advocate for directly impacted and historically marginalized people who are often silenced and pushed to the side. In his free time, he likes to watch space/NASA documentaries, The Golden Girls, and cuddling on the couch with his fur son.

Links from the Show:

• The Task Force Action Fund: https://www.thetaskforceactionfund.org/ 
• Find Allen here: https://www.thetaskforce.org/people/allen-morris/ 
• The Task Force History: https://www.thetaskforce.org/about/history/ 
• Support the Task Force: https://www.thetaskforceactionfund.org/take-action/support-us/ 
• Get Involved with the Task Force here: https://www.thetaskforce.org/get-involved/ 
• Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

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Transcript

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In The Den with Mama Dragons. A podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I am your new host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so honored and excited to join this amazing podcast team and to learn and grow with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here. 

The shocking and devastating outcome of our recent presidential election has left a lot of us reeling. I know that I’ve been vacillating between despair and grief and anger and deep fear. Fear for our LGBTQ+ community and most especially for our children. But also for all of the vulnerable and marginalized communities targeted by the ideology and policies of these newly elected government leaders. And many folks are feeling attacked on many fronts. And I feel a profound sense of loss for the hope for a country that could have lived into its vision to uphold liberty and justice and fundamental rights for all people. And I’ve heard deeply concerning words, like so many of you, and a whole lot of mistruths from this incoming administration about Queer folks and especially our trans beloveds, and I am really worried about what might unfold and how we can respond.

Many of us in the Mama Dragons community are already feeling the impact of these election results as our kids are sharing with us their fears about going to school, about real life interactions that are happening in the school yard, and classrooms, and at work, and out in the community. We are already feeling the impact. And so I am really grateful for today’s guest who is here to unpack these election results with us and talk with us about the impact and our response, as well as a few silver linings for our queer community and the election results.

Today we get to break this all down with Allen Morris who serves as the Policy Director with the National LGBTQ Task Force, one of the country’s oldest, national LGBTQ rights organizations. The Task Force works to build power, take action, and create change to achieve freedom, justice, and equity for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer people. Allen, thank you so much for being with us today. I am really glad we have a chance to talk about all of this with you, because it has been a week!

ALLEN: Yes. It has. And more than anything, thank you so much for having me also. I’m not only here as the policy director for ROC3, but I’ll be speaking in the capacity as the policy director for the National LGBTQ Task Force Action Fund, simply because I think it’s important for me to be able to use names and for me to be able to say things. And under the C4, there is a lot more protections. So I am here on behalf of our Action Fund. 

SARA: That’s great. Thank you for that clarity. And I’m really looking forward to that conversation and hearing about the work of the Action Fund. And before we dive deep in, I want to take a moment to share with our listeners a little bit more about you and your bio. Friends, Allen was born and raised in Beaumont, TX. He’s a graduate of Regent University School of Law (M.A.) and Grand Canyon University (B.S.), Allen is a Policy and Government Affairs gladiator. And I should tell you that Allen’s bios specifies that the pronouns he prefers are He, His, and Gladiator which, Allen brought such a smile to my face. We should all have that with our pronouns these days. Thank you so much for being that gladiator. Allen brings over a decade of broad-based public policy, immigration, criminal, and human rights experience across the legal, corporate, government, and non-profit sectors. He is a fearless advocate for directly impacted and historically marginalized people. And in his free time, he likes to watch space and NASA documentaries, The Golden Girls, and cuddling on the couch with his fur son. And so I imagine, Allen, this week there’s been a lot of work and a lot of cuddling with your pup. 

ALLEN: Yes. Definitely. And I wish I could do more. And, honestly, if I could’ve just, if someone could just pick me up and throw me into a pool of nothing but puppies, that’s what I need right now. And I’ve actually figured out how I can re-up a request to one of our VP’s to have puppies or something nice and cuddly at Creating Change. 

SARA: I think that’s such a perfect idea because we all know that the puppies and dogs help us regulate our nervous system wherever we can get that support in any facet of our lives, we are going to need it. 

ALLEN: Definitely. 

SARA: So here we are. We are talking with each other exactly one week after the election. And there’s been so much analysis, so much Monday Morning Quarter-Backing. But I would like us to talk about impact, and impact in particular to our LGBTQ+ community, but recognizing that that also intersects with a lot of other marginalized identities and communities. And the folks in the Mama Dragons, especially parents of our trans, nonbinary, and gender expansive kids are really, really worried. And our kids are worried too. And there’s just so much fear from queer folks in general. And the immediate impact is already being felt, I think, for a lot of us. So I’m wondering if you could help us unpack that a little bit. What can we expect from this administration, who has made no secret of its thoughts about queer & trans folks? 

ALLEN: Well, I think what’s important to clearly name is there’s a level of intention to eradicate anything LGBTQ-based, but specifically anything that’s trans and gender-nonconforming, right? And that impact is, we’re looking at a narrative shift, right? Where they’re going to vilify our trans siblings and our trans children more than they would any other demographic even within our own communities. So what I think is important is, we have been here before. We know what we need to do. I just think what’s important for us to figure out, what does a multi-generational approach look like, one. But then, two, how do we all stand in solidarity, right? Because really and truly, we already know that Donald Trump is going to try things, right? And he’s going to put his political pawns in certain places and spaces to move and shape-shift things, right? So it’s like, what is it that we need to do to be armed and ready to go when we say, “Hey, we need parents or we need personal stories of folks that are at the actual state capitols, right?” People who can actually show up in the seat. Can you show up and show out and be there. So they can see that what they’re doing, we’re not going to stand for, right? That is constantly where my brain is going is, how do we not only replant ourselves in community, but how do we take on a different approach of what advocacy looks like. 

SARA: Oh, that’s really good. A different approach to advocacy. Can you say more about that? I hear definitely resonating with showing up and showing out in all the ways in which we can make clear that we will resist. We won’t stand for this. What are some of those other different approaches to solidarity that we might think about? 

ALLEN: One of the main things that comes to mind is, how are we leveraging our relationships with people of faith, right? The pulpit has been used very broadly in this election, not only to spew hate, but to also spew mis- and dis-information. So how can we turn that against them and say, “Actually, this is the truth and this is what this impact looks like.” And we have clergy members that are actually speaking to their congregations from facts but also from a sense of humanizing these issues, right? Also, what is it we haven’t done that our ancestors in the movement and the living legends that are still with us in the movement have done and they were able to succeed because we’ve been here before. And taking that multi-generational approach is what’s important in this moment, right? But I think something that is often lost within the movement is oftentimes you have various key players are often trying to fight for the right to be right. None of us need to fight for the right to be right. We need to be fighting for the right to insure that they understand what these impacts look like from a holistic approach. 

SARA: I really appreciate that. You are speaking my language. I am one of those clergy people who really works hard to try to make sure that my messages from my pulpit are about facts and impact and humanizing stories and a call to folks about what our faith has to say about this and how we live out the values of our faith in resistance to the things that are coming at us because they are in direct opposition to what we believe. 

ALLEN: And, honestly, something that I noticed with this election is a lot of our people were afraid to say certain things, especially coming from the faith [inaudible], right, because of the fear-mongering and the threats of prosecution that was placed onto people. Our folks were afraid and rightfully so, rightfully so. But in reality, our opposition used that moment to go to other clergy members that were willing to spew that hate and that set up the part. So now, it’s like, what’s that saying that my grandmother used to always say: “What is good for geese is good for the gander!”, something like that, right? So it was one of those situations where I actively saw where our opposition did not mind stealing the hate from the pulpit and never not once actually speaking facts but moreso telling people “This is how you should be voting and you’re going to vote this way because I told you so.” Not, “We need to think about all people and we need to think about what loving thy neighbor truly means. And that means everyone deserves a right to bodily autonomy. Everyone deserves the right to vote. Everyone deserves the right to go to the doctor and make a decision that is conscious and is between them and their care provider.” And that does not mean that anyone that is of the cloth, clergy, or whatever it may have you, has the right to dictate what that looks like. 

SARA: Amen. Thank you for that. Thank you for that sermon, Allen. That was great. And for my own heart, too and for the heart of our people who I know really sometimes are struggling in coming out of conservative faith communities, but also people who are uncertain about where to go for that kind of religious community and spiritual community. And then even people in our own progressive faith communities are scared and holding back. And so you really spoke to the heart about what’s at stake for us and how we can be a collective voice for solidarity and resistance in the coming months and years. So I really appreciate that. And I’m aware that that is a really important focus area of the Task Force. 

ALLEN: Yes. 

SARA: You have these four focus areas, one of them is Queering Faith which I think you so beautifully spoke to right now about having clergy and people of faith not being afraid to speak from a place of faith about their values in opposition to the kind of targeting and hate that will be coming out of this administration. The other focus areas are also Queering Democracy, Queering Equity, and Building Power. Can you talk about those a little bit, particularly in relationship to this election and what will unfold in the next year or so?

ALLEN: Yeah. Even just speaking to Queering Democracy, one of the things that we were doing on the ground is working with voters on the ground to figure out what were some of those key issues that were causing them to feel a little iffy about, “What should I do?” Right? It was some folks saying, “I definitely don’t want this person. But I don’t know much about this person to formulate a full understanding and comprehension about how they’re going to show up for me.” Right? When we talk about equity, it is so much more deeper than “Everybody can get married now.” It’s “You can get married but also if you are a same-sex couple, when you go to the hospital, you have federal non-discrimination protections,” right? And when we talk about Building Power, that is, how can we bring people from across movements, from across demographics, from across religious backgrounds and say “This is one thing that is holding us back. Let’s work together to dismantle it.” 

SARA: Yes. And I’m thinking about when we talk about building power and we talk about building power across identities, across faiths, across communities and organizations, that speaks to my heart in this moment in particular in a time when it is so easy to feel so powerless, and to lift up our eyes to the horizon and remember that there are more people, more organizations, more connections in this together and really continue to feel that and build that power, I think is what is going to help us keep going. 

ALLEN: Yeah. Also, I just want to speak to the many people who are feeling powerless right now. Just to name that. But something that is very clear, they would not be coming after us if they did not know that we were powerful and that we were masterful in our approaches. That’s why they’re coming after us. We are powerful and we are masterful, right? And they are going to use every tool at their disposal to dismantle us and to disband us and to cause tension within movements and within various communities because they do not want us united. Because the people united can never be divided. They want us divided at every turn because that will give them a lack of unity from multiple angles that they can use to wield power. 

SARA: Yes. That is a great reminder that we don’t want to replicate that kind of division. We want to consolidate connection and power and community and stay together and support each other in this. Even if we have, and we will have, and I think this is the power that the Task Force helps us understand is, we all have different gifts. We all have different strengths. And we’ll all use different tactics. And we can still build the power together, even with all of that difference. 

ALLEN: Definitely. 

SARA: I want to talk more about what might unfold in the early days of this new administration. In particular, I want to chat a moment about Project 2025. We did an episode here on the podcast really kind of digging through that and teasing out some of the really concerning sections that were particular to the LGBTQ+ community. But I wonder if you all have been thinking about, and talking about, and strategizing about, what might come first? What are some of the policies and changes or things that we might look to and prepare for that have been enumerated in Project 2025? 

ALLEN: Well. You know what? People have been asking me this question. And something that I keep thinking about is, how do I simplify it for folks, right? And the most simple way that I can say it is, “We have been fighting the last four years to ensure that the president implements protections for our kids and protections for our communities. As soon as Donald Trump is in office, he’s going to dismantle and roll back everything, right? Which also means that he’s also going to attempt to do a little bit more to see where the pushback comes, or if it comes at all. And if there’s not enough pushback, that there’s not enough people writing him letters, calling the white house, calling their senator, calling their congressperson, saying, “How dare you stand by and let the president do and make these types of changes and not do anything about it?” That’s where we’re going to see how people show up, specifically how the new administration pours into their hatred, right? I mean, he simply wants to make it illegal to even say that you’re trans, right? 

SARA: Yeah.

ALLEN: He wants to make it illegal to even mark that a gender marker that is simply X or a gender marker that is simply nonbinary, he wants to take that away. And there’s a level of intention behind it. And that is because, to him, we’re not viewed as human. To him, we’re seen as tools that does not align with what he views as the True American Dream, which is a lie. Because people standing up and standing out and saying, “I am trans and I am proud. I am queer and I am proud.” Is something that they do not want. But the more we say it and the more we come together to ensure that our babies have that type of autonomy to speak up and speak out, he will not be able to get away with some of his friends in Project 2025 and Agenda 47. But that means that people have to be armed and ready to go when we sound the actual alarm. 

SARA: So let’s talk about what that could look like, being armed and ready to go might look like. How can we prepare? How can we prepare as parents of queer kids, but also as allies to the queer community and the various spaces we inhabit? And then some of our parents being queer and holding queer identities themselves, what are some steps that we can take for ourselves in our various circles to get ready? 

ALLEN: I think the first step that I would tell anyone is, you need to get familiar with who your member is, whether that’s your Senator or your Congressperson. That is the first step. Who are they? What are their contact numbers? What are their district addresses, right? What’s their D.C. address? Because if you need to send a letter or you need to go by their district office, you need to have that information readily available because different things move different members, right? The next thing that is important is to follow the Task Force. Follow us and show your support for what we’re doing because there are going to be times where we’re going to send out a mass email to say, “Hey, we need people to show up and do this. Please join us.” And the more people we have sign up to support those efforts help us reach our numbers. Because to them, it is about “How many people actually contacted me today?”, right? So if we see something happening in Utah where there is an anti-trans ballot – even though I already know Utah has some things going on – but if there’s something that comes up and we say, “We need 100 people to make calls to this office within the next hour.” If we overload them with calls telling them not to vote on something, oh, best believe, they are not going to vote on it because we’ve gotten on their nerves with so many calls, right? If we say we need everybody to go on social media and comment on this senators page and tell them not to vote on something, then that means that we have everybody utilizing their social media to ensure that we tell this person “You do not need to vote on this because this is going to compromise my child and the way that I’m able to parent them.”

SARA: Thank you. And I’ll remind our listeners that we’ll make sure to put all of the socials for the Task Force in our show notes so that you can go right there and click and start following them and get those emails and get those notifications on Facebook so that we can be ready to respond when they put the call out because that’s some really, really good organizing work and reminders for us. Thank you for that. 

ALLEN: And also, in the last thing that I think is really important, we cannot do it all. And when I say “We” I mean family. I mean single parents. I mean individuals that are, one, going through their own things and then now I got to show up for my kid. So it’s, “Figure out what moves you. What is this one thing that I really want to advocate for because that’s the only capacity that I have as a mom that is trying to make sure that the school is treating my child right, that is also trying to make sure that these school boards are not passing things that are going to compromise the way my child can show up.” There’s only so much that all of us can do. But it is about showing up as a collective, right? So figure out what you want to do and how you want to show up based on your capacity. And also, it’s just getting involved in some type of way is always the first step. Whether that’s, I’m going to follow the Task Force and every time I see them say “Sign up and do something.” I’m going to share it and make sure that three people sign up, right? It’s about getting factual messages out. When I see the Task Force send out a “Frequently Asked Question” document or just messaging about it, I’m going to make sure that I’m going to share that because I want to make sure that facts are being spread and not misinformation. That’s preliminary steps that can help us really move the needle and shift the narrative. 

SARA: I really appreciate the helpful reminder. This is something that I’m hearing in organizing spaces a lot recently, but particularly in these days. Is that reminder that we can’t do it all and we have to be clear and kind with ourselves about what our capacity is and that we can do the one thing that we can do and that’s good and that’s enough. And we can also reach out. As you’re talking about that single parent who’s parenting a queer child and maybe also a child with special needs who’s already feeling really overwhelmed, I also think reach out. Reach out to your friend, your neighbor, your local support circles, your Mama Dragons community support circles and ask for some help. 

ALLEN: Yes.

SARA: Ask for some support and get that heart support that you need to be able to do the one thing. And celebrate the one thing. 

ALLEN: Yes.

SARA: I worry because I’ve felt this for myself in 2016 and in the subsequent years. That it is so easy to get overwhelmed and overloaded by the firehose of horribleness and hate and terrible policies that will be coming at us. And that’s their tactic. So I keep trying to think to myself, “OK, how can I support my people and myself to not get overwhelmed?” 

ALLEN: And, honestly, if we’re overwhelmed, then it’s not doing us a service. It’s actually doing us a disservice, right? We need people who are able to compartmentalize that these attacks are coming left and right. But guess what, nine out of the ten attacks are sliding off the wall, okay? And that one attack that may be sticking, probably is going to get knocked off the wall in some sort of a capacity because of the community and solidarity that we all share to ensure that we’re going to knock it off the wall. And so that’s really how I do want people to think about it: “Yeah, they’re going to come at us in every form, every shape, but a lot of the mud that they’re flinging is sliding and not much of it is actually sticking.”

SARA: Yeah. Good. Good reminders. I want to talk a little bit about our folks in our communities and parents in particular, how are particularly those of us who live in red states and highly conservative states where we’ve already been experiencing a lot of these policy attacks and targets on our kids. I know I live in Idaho and we already have a ban on gender-affirming care for youth that’s moving its way through the court system and a ban on gender-affirming care and Medicaid and some really terrible things that we’ve been fighting for more than a year now. But I’ve noticed a lot more folks are starting to think and talk about very seriously relocating to safer states, even leaving the country. And I’m wondering if the Task Force and your work if you have awareness and/or partnerships with other organizations and programs and resources that our parents and community might be able to access and turn to when they’re starting to think about these kinds of things? 

ALLEN: The action Fund hasn’t had the opportunity to break down what some of these impacts look like for people who would need to move outside of states and go somewhere else. Because it is a very difficult decision to uproot your life and go somewhere else, right? It is also very tricky in this moment to say, “If you go here, you’ll be protected.” When even in blue states, we’re seeing the same attacks happen. So right now, the goal is figuring out what we need to do at the federal level to add some protection which would allow some of the red and blue states to be less motivated to even bring any of those things to the state legislature, right? 

SARA: Yes.

ALLEN: That’s the larger picture. It’s like, what else do we need to do to ensure that people have those protections? Because, in reality, I don’t think no state is off-limits in this moment, right? Because there are people that are bringing forth an anti-gender-affirming care bill in every state so far, especially over the last year. So by now it is really hard to answer that question with a level of clear understanding that if this person makes this decision that they’re fully protected because, unfortunately, with the way some of these attacks are happening, we just don’t know what could come out of it whether we’re in a red state or a blue state. 

SARA: That’s, I think, the complicating factor, isn’t it. That’s the hardest part of the decision: if I take all of these steps out of a deep desire to protect my family and move to a safer state, there are no guarantees. 

ALLEN: And also, I just want to clearly name that, “Is it easier to get a blue state to move on something and to not vote on something?” Most definitely. It is so much easier, right? However, in those red states, the reason why a lot of the stuff win and thrive is because our families have been so guarded with certain things that it is easier for us not to call them and tell them what this impact looks like. And now we may have to change the tide. Now we may have to say, “You know what, I’m going to have to put myself out on a limb and call my senator and tell this person “You don’t need to do this because this is how this impacts me.” Because the more conversations and the more people that they hear from that are pushing back on negative things, when our organization goes in and says, “Hi. We are the Task Force Action Fund, and we’re here because we heard from 69 constituents in the state of Iowa that are concerned about this, this, this, and this. So we need to make sure that your support is very clear, that you’re not going to vote on this.” They can’t turn away and say, “Oh no. I didn’t hear from them.” Because we’re going to have to prove that “69 people reached out to you within the last two weeks about how these impacts look and why you shouldn’t vote on something that would negatively impact our community.”

SARA: That’s really great. I’m really glad to hear that you’re doing that work. Personally, I know it’s been a bit of a struggle where I live because it is so very right and so very red that oftentimes we don’t feel listened to. That we do all of that story-telling and all of that responding and it doesn’t make a huge dent. And it can be kind of demoralizing to continue that. Even in my heart, as I know how important it is to not let up, it can make it hard to just keep on time after time, after time, after time. 

ALLEN: Honestly, I hear you and I feel that 100%. And a way that I’m trying to figure out how we get around some of those factors where people are like, “I’ve done that and they didn’t listen.” Is figuring out what organizations in that state we need to partner with to amplify the message, right? Because, again, the more people that are involved and that are pushing back, the easier it is for us to get things done. So if you think about it this way, we got 69 parents reaching out, right? We also have 3 state awards and now you have a national award that is coming with all of this information and data. It’s like they have no choice but to go, “We need to rethink what’s going on because they’re building power in ways that we didn’t necessarily plan for and now we need to restrategize what we’re doing and we need to show up in the way that they’re asking us to show up.”

SARA: So, to me, that echoes a little bit of some of the organizing strategies around disruption and trying to find ways in which we disrupt the patterns that our elected leaders are currently using. And I don’t mean disruption in necessarily a civil disobedience direct action kind of way with arrests and all of that. But using the lens of disruption to try to figure out, how do we get in there. 

ALLEN: Disruption is a tool that has been utilized in many great ways. I mean, even just going back to the civil rights movement. You know what I’m saying, like, we’re going to need disruptors. Personally speaking, I’m ready to go to jail. 

SARA: Me too. Me too. I’m right there with you.

ALLEN: And honestly, we need a list of people that are like, “I’m ready to go to jail whether I’m a clergy member, whether I’m a parent, whether I’m a principal, whether I am a counselor, whether I’m a teacher.” Do you know what I’m saying? We need people across these various demographics that are willing to actually take it there and disrupt. And it can be a simple sit in, right, where folks go, I’m going to go to this person’s district office and I’m just going to sit in here all day and they’re going to see 50 people sit in this office all day until they change their mind. That’s a simple disruption that causes problems, right? Honestly, and this is what I’m saying when we talk about what is a different approach to advocacy look like, right? There are going to be some uncomfortable moments. We’re going to have to try some things. And honestly, we may win at some and we may fail as well. But at least we have to try. 

SARA: Yes. And I think that’s super important. So I just want to name, friends go to the National LGBTQ Task Force Website and their socials, and you can clarify for them what level of disruption feels comfortable for you. So if you want to be one of those ones that says, “I’m ready to be arrested.” You heard it from Allen. We need those folks as much as we need all of the folks working behind the scenes in those supportive roles. But I appreciate you saying that and I appreciate also the naming of sometimes we’re going to get it wrong. Sometimes we’re going to fail. 

ALLEN: Yeah. And I also want to name, when I talk about disruptors, I’m talking about people like myself that is cisgender, black, and gay and that is a US citizen. I’m not talking about a trans parent going out there and putting themselves on the line because they suffer at a different level of impact, right? I’m talking about our allies that are listening and that know that, “You know what, I am an individual that can speak to their privilege and that can also show up at that intersection to insure that I use my privilege as a tool to ensure liberation for someone else.” That’s what I’m talking about when it comes down to disruptors. That’s also clergy members. “I am a pastor and I am coming here in my clergy gear to make sure that it is very, very clear that Christians are standing up against white Christian Nationalism.” 

SARA: Yes. 

ALLEN: And that’s what I’m talking about when we say, we need disruptors. 

SARA: That’s such important clarification. I really appreciate you naming that. The recognition that there is an amount of personal risk in being a front-line, arrestable disruptor and that is not a risk that we necessarily are encouraging anyone and everyone to take. But to make that real honest assessment for yourself and know that if your own identities put you at greater risks for greater harm and suffering, and you choose not to do that, there is a whole host of people who support you in that choice, and a whole host of other ways you can show up in the disruptive space that isn’t getting arrested. 

ALLEN: Yes.

SARA: Thank you. Because I think that’s really important. And also, I really appreciate you keep coming back to faith. I know that my own ministerial colleagues and I talk about this all the time. And I've been in a number of direct actions where I show up in my clergy collar and it’s just the hard and unfortunate truth of the moment, but that affords me such a greater amount of privilege and protection. And even when there’s been law enforcement, even when I’ve been arrested, I’m treated differently when I’m wearing the clergy garb than other people who are not. 

ALLEN: And honestly, we need faith communities. We really do. But also, it is beyond the Abrahamic approach to what that looks like. We need everybody. 

SARA: Everybody. 

ALLEN: Because nationalism is thriving in all these different places and it’s holding everyone back. So that’s why we need folks. I constantly – every time I talk about this I think about the image of Dr. Martin Luther King when they were marching. And it was all these clergy members across various religious backgrounds that all were together. And I’m like, that’s what we need. We really have to go into that file cabinet and see what works and what didn’t work and figure out what can we reimplement and what can we do again to ensure our people have liberation. And that starts with a lot of faith leaders showing up. 

SARA: Yeah. And what can we do, again. but you’ve also mentioned, also how do we get creative? When we allow ourselves to just think creatively and to try things knowing that some things might not work but that gets that creativity really flowing. We might find some great combination of things that we haven’t tried before or haven’t been tried in a while that are really powerful. 

ALLEN: Yep. 

SARA: Allen, your passion is just so clear. And your gladiator self is coming on through. And I’m really curious about your story and how you came into this work and what your journey was to get here. Will you share some of that with us? 

ALLEN: Yeah. And thank you so much for that question. I often have to tell myself, especially as a person of color, oftentimes, we’re just naturally loud, right? Shout out to my POC. We are just naturally loud. And I often, I love when people can feel and understand my passion because that makes me feel so good. But I am a son of the south. And I was raised in a small town that’s right outside of Houston, Texas. I was raised in a very traditional Pentecostal church, a Christian home. 

SARA: Okay. 

ALLEN: I was raised by my grandmother until I was 16 years old. And I didn’t have anybody that looked like me, that was pouring into me with a certain level of intention. And during that time, I went through a lot. I went through self-discovery. I went through houselessness, right? But through it all, I knew there was something that I needed to do. I just didn’t know where to start. And actually, I got my start in movement work, working in the human rights movement. One of my closests friends, who I really consider a sister, is a immigration attorney. And she was like, “Hey. You ought to just come and help me at the office. Just come help me.” And it wasn’t until I realized that so many black and brown folks were dealing with immigration issues that were beyond the scope of what we were seeing and hearing on the news that really made me take a deeper dive into how I was raised and what I was told and dismantling a lot of those principles that I was taught. And also forced me into therapy because as I got older, I realized that my parents, mainly my mother, my grandmother and my mother were only reflections of what was invested into them. And I literally had to take it from a point of, they were each large cups. We can say a Starbucks Bente cup, right? And whatever was poured into them was what they poured into me. But it was based on what overflowed, right? And unfortunately, that wasn’t how to be a man in a country that is highly misogynistic. It wasn’t how to not be transphobic. It wasn’t how to not be xenophobic. It was very much “So, everything about you is wrong and you are going to hell.” That was all that was poured into me at a very young age. And, unfortunately, that set me up for a lot of mental health issues, where now I’m dealing with anxiety. Now I’m feeling less-than. Now I’m having to navigate this space of “Why is it I’m being treated differently, but I see that resources are being poured into someone else that’s not doing half of what I’m doing.” And what I mean by that is, I’ve been working a full-time job since I was 14 years old, right? 

SARA: Yeah.

ALLEN: And I have siblings that didn’t do half of that. But they got all the attention. They got all the love. They got all these various things. It was one of those situations where I had to have a conversation with myself – especially as an adult, right – to go, “I went through these things for a reason. There is no reason that my story has all these complicated avenues and highways and freeways and not be able to share it with someone else,” right? And that’s truly what led me to advocacy work. I want to give back. I want to pour into other kids and make sure that they know that they are not alone and that they don’t deserve levels of treatment and harm. And I also want to encourage the single mother or the single father or the trans parent, right? To just let them know that “You’re doing the best that you can do and that’s all that matters,” right? Is pouring into your child and making sure that you're showing up for them. 

SARA: Thank you for that. Thank you for sharing your story. And I’m struck by the trajectory of your story which is unfortunately a story I’ve heard time and time again, particularly from folks who were raised in much more conservative religious traditions and households where their identities were not celebrated. And there you are, and that beautiful recognition that your family members could only pour into you what they were taught, what they had, what little was there for them. But what was that turning point for you? Who was it, or who was someone that poured more into you, that helped you see your own self and your own light differently? 

ALLEN: Actually, it was my nieces and nephews. 

SARA: That’s fantastic. 

ALLEN: My sister, she has twins, Liberty and Justice. 

SARA: Oh, what great names. 

ALLEN: She’s a lawyer. So Liberty and Justice for all. At a very early age, I received so much love from the twins. She also has a son, Trey. I received so much love from them. And there was a moment where someone questioned who I was to them based on my sexual orientation. And to see how those kids did not play about me, really helped me realize that kids are pure hearts. But kids are also honest, right? 

SARA: Oh, yes.

ALLEN: And it just made me realize that, if your child is telling you they don’t want to be around somebody because they do this to them or because they treat them this type of way, that you need to take it with full transparency and you need to move on it. It’s something that my nieces and nephews taught me is that I can be gay and open and it does not mean that that is going to impact them negatively. It means that they’re going to see me for my full self and they can be their full selves. I’m 33 years old. So this happened when I was like 25, 26, when I’m still in the movement and I’m trying to do things. But there’s also this fear of rejection and this fear of people seeing me as this gay person that can’t do this. Or people try to pigeon-hole me into doing this one thing and then I go be with my baby and my babies show me that I can do anything, right? And that doesn’t matter. That was a very clear turning point for me. 

SARA: That's such a beautiful reflection on the power of how children can love so fiercely that it can impact us in ways we don’t even recognize in the moment. And I also want to name that those nieces and nephews get the benefit, now, of an uncle who is a shining light, who is a gladiator. And they get to see and experience and learn from that. You’re pouring it back into them. 

ALLEN: So family is who you chose. It is not by blood, right? And I’m really grateful for that. And I’m really grateful for learning what that actually means. But I will also say, my blood family, I am hell on water for them. On water in a good way. where I see the older generation where they’re battling certain things and I can come in and give them a different point of view and perspective that they never even thought about. Or the generation that’s after me, where I’m seeing that they’re hiding who they are because their parent has a very strong point of view on what it means to be LGBTQ but they don’t mistreat me. So now it promotes a question from me to them to go, “How can you sit up here and talk to me and tell me these things, but you can’t pour into your own child? Something is off here.” So I often tell folks, for my family I am chaos because we are not going to be misogynistic. We’re not going to be homophobic. We’re not going to be transphobic. We’re not going to spew any type of hate. Nor are we going to sit up here and act like that we’re going to allow people to have their points of view based on religious principles when that is often rooted in hatred. 

SARA: Wow. I wish for all of us to take just an ounce of that back with us into our own lives because that is a really powerful place to hold in one’s world, and family, and life. And thank you for doing that. Your reflection about chosen family, and that clarification around family can be the people we choose as much, if not more than, the ones we’re related to by blood, and how important that is. I want to lift that up right now in this post-election time as we’re all trying to process and figure out what to do and how to respond and where to go, that turning to those spaces of chosen family, to those spaces of community care, is going to be so important and so needed. And just want to lift up that we need to avail ourselves of all of those things that bring that love and joy into our hearts because that is what will keep us grounded and keep us going. 

ALLEN: Definitely. 

SARA: And you are one of those. I just can feel it as we’re talking here and I’m grateful for your presence in all of this work and in the world. 

I want to turn a little bit to some silver linings. Some small moments of celebration because they were there in this election even as they were probably very overshadowed by the grief and the fear that was coming out of the Presidential election. And I just want to end on that note together. A little bit of celebration and reminding our community that more than a thousand lesbian, gay, and bisexual, and transgender candidates ran for elected office this year in races in nearly every single state. And that the LGBTQ+ candidate pool was also more diverse than ever, with 37% or candidates being LGBTQ people of color and 15% not cisgender. Oh my gosh. Those are extraordinary statistics. 

ALLEN: Yes.

SARA: So let’s talk about some of those celebrations. I’ll start out with just naming that I have been following very closely the conversations and the celebrations of Delaware’s Sarah McBride who became the first out transgender person elected to the US Senate. And what a gift that will be to our country, to Delaware, to our Senate, to have her voice in there. 

ALLEN: And I think it’s very important for folks to understand that this was something that took some time. It took some knocking on doors. It took some no’s. But, you know what? She has prevailed, right? But it was one of those situations to me that when I saw that happen, I got extremely happy. But then I also had a bit of sadness that this is the first time that there are so many of our trans leaders that have run for office and, regardless of their qualification and regardless of their track record, they didn’t win because of transphobia. But this time, that wasn’t in the room. And we have someone that is going to be moving and shaking. And I’m really excited to bring the Task Force to her office so we can strategize and work together. I’m also really interested in what the overall support from her constituents are going to look like because she’s really going to need her people speaking up and speaking out to ensure that there is levels of respect and reverence. 

SARA: Absolutely. It’s great. It’s a real fortifying moment to listen to her talk about how she has spent a career working with people, and working with people who don’t necessarily like her. And she seems like she’s just really ready to go in this moment. And she will be someone to watch. Are there other newly elected queer folks out there that you know of that we should know about? 

ALLEN: I’m trying to think off the top of my head. I feel like everyone has just been talking about Sarah, especially because of where she stands. Of course we made plenty of wins in state legislators, right? Where there are plenty LGBTQ, specifically trans folks, working in those legislators. But with her being the first trans person to be in the federal government, that’s going to be shape shifting. 

SARA: Yes.

ALLEN: And I think also when we look at having someone that is going to be working on these various committees that can bring the LGBTQ perspective and lens with direct impact and that can actually speak to those issues. I feel like, of course, we are so happy for everyone that won. But this, what has happened with Sarah, is life-changing, definitely. 

SARA: I was just reviewing some of the announcements of election results for queer folks who won elections in some first times. And there’s Amaad Rivera-Wagner out of Wisconsin will be the first out, black, queer member of this Wisconsin State Assembly. And Rashaun Kemp out of Georgia who will be the first gay black man in the Georgia legislature. Julie Johnson in Texas being the first out queer person from the south. And I also want to give a shout out to all of the queer elected officials already serving and already elected in state houses and in local offices around the country. Thank you for your service. Thank you for the work you’re already doing. And it’s always good, friends, for us to remember those moments of celebration. To turn to the leaders that we want to follow and support and champion. 

ALLEN: And honestly, we are winning. Regardless of how many times they may come at us and say these various things, our folk are winning and that is part of the reason why they are coming at us so hard. 

SARA: Thank you for saying that, Allen. Do you have any reflection on voter turnout for the LGBTQ+ community? What were those numbers like? 

ALLEN: More than 80% of LGBTQ identifying voters voted in favor of Kamala Harris, right? And so this is a telltale sign that people want someone in office that is going to make their lives easier, that is not spewing hate, and that is clearly looking for ways to enhance the American dream. And I wholeheartedly believe that people are just tired of it always being something negative, of it always being, “Okay. I’ve gotta watch my back. I’ve got to look over my shoulder.” You know what I’m saying? People are really ready to start planning their lives. People are ready for their children to be able to grow up in communities and under leadership that is not based in dictatorship but actually a democracy. And that’s how many of our people showed up at the polls. 

SARA: That’s the vision for us to hold onto, is that our votes matter, and our action matters, and we’re just continuing to grow in impact and in power. Allen, I’m really grateful for all the time that you’ve spent with us today. And I like to close out my interviews by asking three questions. And the first question is, who is inspiring you right now? Whose work are you following? Who should we know about? 

ALLEN: Honestly, I’m going to say my Task Force Action Fund colleagues are inspiring me right now. For us to be on the ground and for us to be working various campaigns even when things seem rocky and shaky and to come out of it knowing that we may not have won it all but we won some – which is important – is really inspiring me to show up and be the colleague and just the person that all of our community requires which is pushing for change, right? Also, so many young people came out and turned out to vote. That is inspiring in itself to know that they see the truth and they see through all of the BS regardless of how many times there may have been an anti-trans ad or there may have been an anti-LGBTQ ad . They saw through the BS and they voted appropriately. And that is so inspiring that our younger folks can see through the crap and go, “Actually, I’m still not going to vote for you because I know that you’re lying.” It just feels so good to know that our opposition can try so hard with lies and not win. They may win some folks, but they’re not winning all people. 

SARA: Yes. Yes. Yes. Young people, young voters, yes. And that connects back with an early comment you made way in the beginning that I just want to circle back to about different approaches to our solidarity and our response and our resistance and that they will be multigenerational approaches. And the showing up of our young people are part of that, and always have been throughout change making in history. And thank you young people .And thank you, Task Force. And thank you Task Force Action Fund. Y’all are doing some extraordinary work. And on behalf of all of us who are parents of queer kids, who have queer and marginalized identities, thank you, thank you, thank you. 

Allen, the next question is about our Mama Dragons name. The name Mama Dragons comes from a sense of fierceness, like a dragon, and fierce protection of our queer kids. And so I really like to ask guests, “What is it that you’re fierce about?"

ALLEN: That’s a really good one. Honestly, I am very fierce about just our community in general. At the intersection of where we show up, I’m very fierce about that simply because it is very hard to show up in these various spaces and not feel a attachment to do what’s right. And when you have that type of attachment, you hoard that, right? But you also have a sense of “I want to protect it,” right? I want to protect our elders who have done all this work and now our opposition is trying to take away their health care, is trying to take away their social security, is trying to take away their Medicare. I want to protect our individuals that go through repro care. I want to protect our individuals that are able to bear children, right? Because it’s not a binary issue. So many people go through these things and need that level of support. And so I'm very fierce about making sure I show up for those individuals that may not have the means or may not feel that they have the power to speak up. It is about me showing them that their voice matters and that collectively we will overcome. Because, again, the people united never can be divided. 

SARA: Yes. And it is that fierceness that you speak of for community that will power us through. 

ALLEN: Yes, definitely. 

SARA: Okay. Final question, and this is a really important way to end, I think, in this moment in these times. What is bringing you joy? 

ALLEN: What is bringing me joy right now is I am looking forward to the holidays. This is the first time I’m going to go with my partner for the holidays to visit his family. But also, I’m creating my own holiday traditions, especially someone that is no longer in the south. I live in the DMV area, which is the DC, Maryland, Virginia. And for me, I know a lot of people have had issues with family, right? This election has shown people the true colors of so many folks. Well, for me, I am looking forward to creating my own pathway, right? Creating my own happiness and encouraging other people to do that especially as we look forward to the next four years. And we all need to take time for respite and to recharge so we can get out there and really kick ass. 

SARA: Yes. That is the perfect way to end. Thank you to the joy and making sure we take time to see and celebrate that joy and nurture and nourish ourselves so we can kick some butt. Thank you, Allen. This has been an extraordinary conversation. I’m so deeply grateful to you, to the work of the Task Force and the Task Force Action Fund. And we will be turning to you in the coming months for sure. Thanks so much for your time today. 

ALLEN: Thank you so much for having me. 

SARA: Thanks for joining us here In the Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons also offers an eLearning program called Parachute? Through this interactive learning platform, you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at mamadragons.org/parachute, or find the link in the episode show notes under links.

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