Drag Story Hour

Drag Story Hour is a global movement that brings the magic of storytelling, the art of drag, and the power of inclusion to libraries, schools, and community spaces, creating environments where kids can celebrate diversity, explore their imaginations, and embrace the beauty of self-expression. This week In the Den, Sara and Drag Story Hour’s Jonathon Hamilt discuss everything from the joy drag story  hour brings to children and families to addressing the challenges it faces to the ways in which drag story hours are changing the narrative about drag and LGBTQ+ representation in ways that are educational, empowering, and downright fun.

Special Guest: Jonathan Hamilt

Jonathan Hamilt (he/him) is with Drag Story Hour and co-founder of the NYC Chapter in 2016. Hamilt was the first Executive Director of the organization, taking it from a loose string of a few state's events to a national 501 c 3 with an international chapter network. He has spoken at Harvard, Yale, the Medical Library Association, the American Library Association, Public Library Association, School Library Journal, and SXSWEDU Conference. His activism spreads outside the work with Drag Story as his Drag persona "Ona Louise" hosts drag charity bingos across NYC. Ona Louise's personal goal is healing her inner child by offering affirming and accepting programming for kids which teaches them that it's more than okay to be different and they are loved no matter what!

Links from the Show:

• Drag Story Hour’s website: https://www.dragstoryhour.org/ 
• Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
• Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons 
• Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/ 

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Transcript

SARA: Hi, everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons. A podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara Lawall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here. 

Today, we are diving into a colorful and joyful topic, and one that’s been sparking a lot of conversations around the world. We are going to talk about Drag and particularly, Drag Story Hour! And I’m thrilled to have an extraordinary guest joining us, Jonathan Hamilt, the first Executive Director of Drag Story Hour, a national organization and now the Communications Director. Drag Story Hour is a global movement that brings the magic of storytelling, the art of drag, and the power of inclusion to libraries, schools, and community spaces: creating spaces where kids can celebrate diversity, explore their imaginations, embracing the beauty of self-expression.

Jonathan is with us to share a little bit of the story behind the evolution of Drag Story Hour, its mission, and the impact it’s having on communities everywhere. From the joy it brings to children and families, to addressing the challenges it faces, we’re going to explore how this kind of initiative is changing the narrative about drag and LGBTQ+ representation in ways that are educational, empowering, and downright fun. Jonathan, so happy to have you with us. Welcome to In The Den. 

JONATHAN: Thank you so much for having me. This is really amazing. 

SARA: It is really amazing. I’ve been doing a lot of research about you and Drag Story Hour. And it’s such an incredible, beautiful organization. Can you tell us a little bit about the story behind its evolution and founding? How did it get started?

JONATHAN: So Drag Story Hour is exactly like it sounds. It’s drag queens, drag kings, and other royal beings that read to kids in public schools, in parks, in churches, in community centers all over the country and the world. We’ve been an organization with different chapters around the country since 2015. So we’re celebrating our ten years of Drag Story Hour which is really amazing. 

SARA: That is amazing. Congratulations. 

JONATHAN: Yeah. It’s really crazy how time has really flown by. But we always say that we have organized these events. But I’m sure that queer people in costume have been reading to children since the dawn of time. So we can’t take that credential. But our first knowledge of organized drag story tellers, performers, reading to kids, was actually the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in the Bay Area in about 2014 ,I want to say, so I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence a little bit. But they are a really amazing group of drag activists that dress up as nuns and they do a lot of fundraising and outreach in their communities. They were a really instrumental community partner in the AIDS epidemic and really raised a lot of awareness and a lot of money for different researches and amazing causes. And they were the first ones that we know of to read to kids. And it was birthed up in the Bay Area, much like many things happen in the Bay Area. And Persia, who is an amazing drag performer and Latin transwoman drag performer, was our first story teller for story hour in 2015 in the San Francisco Public Library. And just a very fun, San Francisco, in the Castro event, just very community-based. Just doing this because it’s fun and queer and a great way to bring queer community. And Michelle Tea along with Radar Productions really thought “We need more programming for queer families. I love storytime at the library. I love bringing my kids there. What would it be like to make this queer?” And they’re like, “Well, Drag Queen Story Hour would be amazing.” And then about a year later, I had a friend, Dr. Harper Keenan, who lived in the Bay Area, was like, “You should check out this thing called Drag Queen Story Hour at the San Francisco Public Library.” I was like, “Oh, that sounds interesting.” And I was a baby drag queen myself in 2016. I was just starting out. And I was like, “This is cool.” And I got to see Honey Mahogany who was on RuPaul’s Drag Race a few seasons ago. And all the kids were screaming her name and cheering her on when she came out. And she just read books but in full drag. And I was like, “This is just a normal story hour at the library but somebody a little bit more fabulous is reading the books.” And I was like, “This is amazing. I want to bring this back to New York City.” I had never been a night-life drag performer myself. So I was like, “This is great. I love kids. I can read to them. I can be done by 12:30 in the afternoon. No late nights. This is perfect for me.” So with the blessing of Radar Productions and Michelle Tea, I helped co-found the New York City chapter in 2016. And it’s just been a really wild ride. 

SARA: And now this organization is a national umbrella for chapter affiliates to be able to create themselves and all kinds across the country. How many different chapters do you have? 

JONATHAN: Yeah. Right now we have about 25 chapters. I think in the height of Drag Story Hour we had almost about 50 chapters nationwide. And that ebbs and flows because most of our affiliates are doing this on a volunteer basis. So this is not their main gig or their main job. So there’s lots of ebb and flow to our affiliates. 

SARA: Sure. The vision of the organization is really beautiful. Can you share a little bit about the vision for Drag Story Hour? 

JONATHAN: The vision has definitely changed throughout the years. And now we’re at a point where we want to envision a future where all people, not just children, but everybody can learn from LGBTQ+ storytelling to embrace themselves and champion free expression in our communities. And we don’t want any of the stories to be silenced. We don’t want storytelling to go away, whether that be written storytelling in books or oral traditions of storytelling. And drag is such an amazing art performance that’s rooted in queer culture that has such amazing history and such vibrancy that should be retold, and told again and again. 

SARA: So share with us for those of who maybe have never attended a Drag Story Hour or storytime anywhere in their own community. What does it look like? 

JONATHAN: Drag Story Hour looks like kind of your average storytime at a library. It is really fabulous and amazing and full of sequins and colors and bright personalities, big personalities. But at the end of the day, it’s just a storytime. It’s just our story teller may have a little bit more makeup on, maybe a little bit bigger hair, maybe a little louder. But we keep it the traditional kind of story hour format that’s been going around since 1900 in libraries across the country. 

SARA: With maybe a little more sparkles, a little more glitter. 

JONATHAN: A little more glitter, definitely more sparkles for sure. 

SARA: I can’t remember a story hour where kids were shrieking like fans of a movie star coming to read to them. So it’s such a delightful experience. And I think about young children and the way their imaginations are already exploding and in full bloom, and trying on identities and loving to play dress up, and how Drag Story Hour just kind of nurtures that and really plays with that and encourages that in such a beautiful way. 

JONATHAN: Yeah. Drag is a really interesting tool that we use with our reading books and storytelling. And I think a lot of adults are triggered by drag because they have preconceived notions of what drag could be or what they’ve seen of drag or what they’ve heard of drag or what the media has portrayed. Or they think of something really weird or just some homophobic thoughts about what drag is. But it’s an art form. And kids take it for face value. They love it. They think it’s so amazing and so creative and it’s boundless. It’s really exciting to see. And I think a lot of kids don’t get to experience live performance very often. I get to see a really charismatic clown, basically, in front of them. And I think that’s a really special unique experience. 

SARA: Do you have a favorite moment or story from a Drag Story Hour that sticks out to you that you can share with us? 

JONATHAN: I have a couple. When I was first reading in Brooklyn, I did a small school in Brooklyn. And they thought it was an actual queen coming to visit, which I think was amazing. And the teacher prepped them like, “Okay. We have a special guest coming next week and they’re this drag queen.” And they’re like, “A Queen!” And when I came to the class, they were kind of in awe and they presented me with this scepter and they made me a crown. They made me a paper mache flower bouquet. I was like, “Oh. This is very regal.” So they were mystified. And I think that was super cool to bring this magic and this playfulness and creative of having this royal being in front of you in your presence and exchanging ideas and stories. It’s just whimsical. And I think that’s what attracted me to things as a kid was this whimsy, creative aspect to life that we don’t get to see a lot in this depressing world sometimes. 

SARA: Yeah. 

JONATHAN: And then further along in our journey with our program, we expanded our programs. Not only did we just do our signature story hours, we started working with different groups. And one group we started to work with was children with disabilities or autism. So we were doing these sensory story hours for kids with autism in the New York Public Library. And one really great story was we had a parent reach out to us that was saying that they can never get their kid to a storytime at the library. It was a lot of trouble. It was overwhelming. And they couldn’t sit through a whole thing. And there would be a big outburst. But when they brought their child to Drag Story Hour at the library, not only did they sit through the entire story hour, but they were participating and clapping and answering questions and doing call and response, and was really into it. And now every time they go to the library the kid asks if that certain drag performer’s going to be there because now they associate story hour with drag, which I think is super fun. 

SARA: That’s a beautiful story. I love that. That’s really sweet. And what a telling way to reinforce the power of diverse engagement for kids, right? They all need something a little bit different and how drag really worked for this particular kiddo. 

JONATHAN: And drag is so off the wall, this boundless expression that has nothing tied to it as far as gender normatives or how you’re supposed to act, or how you’re supposed to look, or how you’re supposed to sound. And kids will ask that. “Why do you have a man’s voice?” And the response is, “I don’t have a man’s voice. I have a low voice. I can have a low voice. You can have a high voice.” So you kind of break down this gender-binary that kids kind of live by and it kind of breaks them out of this mold of thinking. 

SARA: So how did you get into drag? 

JONATHAN: Well, I am a through and through homosexual. So I think it’s just in my blood to dress up and be crazy and creative. 

SARA: How did you discover it as you were coming up? Do you remember your first drag moment? 

JONATHAN: To get really deep in your queer roots, I do think that it’s all about the Disney villains. I feel like they’re so queer-coded. And I think my first drag moment, that I understood drag what it is, not drag itself. Is the Rescuers when Madame Medusa is talking to Penny in the bayou in her boat. And she has her hair wrapped up in a towel and she’s taking off her makeup and she’s peeling off her false eyelashes. I was like, “She has this bright red lipstick and this fur coat and this red hair. And how she’s taking all of it off to reveal this other side of her.” But then she puts all of this on to become this fearsome Madame Medusa. So I think that’s when the concept of drag hit me. But I guess, actual drag would’ve been in high school when we went to New York City. I’m from The South. I’m from Georgia, born and raised Southern Baptist. And visiting New York at 16, I saw Lactatia Falls which is about drag Queens. So I was like, “This is super cool.” And queerness finds its own way. You kind of discover things through literature and books. 

SARA: So I’m curious. You mentioned you grew up in The South, from Georgia. What was it like growing up for you as a queer kid? When did you come out? 

JONATHAN: It’s interesting. I don’t think I ever really “came out” in a traditional sense. I think my whole close circle of friends knew who I was. Maybe not asked me directly about it, but just accepted me for what I am. And I’m really lucky. I never got bullied in middle school or high school. I was pretty lucky in that sense. But growing up in a really Christian, Southern home, expression is just hard in general, I think, when you live in a very heteronormative lifestyle. And adding some Southern hospitality and some Christian love to it, it really kind of boxes you in. And I journaled all the time. As soon as I learned how to write, I was always keeping a journal, a diary. And I told all my deepest darkest secrets in those things. And at 16, my mom found my journal, read it cover to cover, which landed me in gay conversion therapy for about a year when I was 16 to 17. And that was really interesting for me. And the only queerness I could get exposure to was two things. It was Rent, the musical. And Angels in America which are two wildly age-inappropriate things to see, both about AIDS, both about being homeless and being in New York City. And those are just what I could get my hands on at the time. So I thought, “Well, I might as well die of AIDS and live in New York City because I guess that’s what queer people do.” So I moved to New York City. I did not die. And I really discovered drag and the performance aspect and the real art of it in New York City. And I was like, “Oh this is cool.” And I dressed up as Lana Del Rey for Halloween one year and that was it. And that’s the running thing: “When you do drag, were you a Halloween drag queen or like a college drag queen where you dressed up for some benefit or some fashion show?” Those were kind of like the two routes. 

SARA: The two entry points. 

JONATHAN: Yeah. So I was a Halloween drag queen, 2012, Lana Del Rey. I was feeling it and never looked back since. 

SARA: Awesome. And if I may ask, what is your drag name now? 

JONATHAN: Yes. My drag name is Ona Louise which is also my mother’s name. 

SARA: Wow. 

JONATHAN: So some people go to therapy. Others just become their mother in drag. 

SARA: So I’m curious. I’ve always been curious. How do drag artists get their drag names? Is it just personal preference, because they’re all really delightfully ironic, some of them are taking some cultural icon and twisting it just a little bit. 

JONATHAN: It’s funny, your drag name is really a choose-your-own-adventure situation. If you ask any drag artist how they got their name, everyone has a very different unique story of how they found it. A lot of people have changed their names over time. In Drag culture you have houses where you have groups of drag artists that have the same last names. You may have certain houses of so-and-so much like the ballroom scene in New York where you have different houses. Some people name you. It’s as unique as you think it would be. And with Drag Story Hour we do a lovely fun ice breaker of find your own drag name. We have a mad lib that you fill out where you can fill out your title, your first name, your middle initial, your last name. You put it all together. And we created that so people could find their own alter ego and think of themselves in a different way, just changing your given name. You don’t get to choose your name in your real life, I guess, most of the time. And what would it be like to not be Sara or not be Jonathan? What if your name was something completely different? How would that change how you look at the world, or how you act, or how you carry yourself? So it’s just a fun exercise to think outside of the box. 

SARA: That’s a great exercise. I appreciate that. And you mentioned drag houses and I was really curious about that. I’ve heard a lot of drag artists who I’m friends with talk about drag mothers and drag children. Can you share with us a little bit about the structure of all of that and how that works? 

JONATHAN: Yeah. So I’m actually a drag orphan with a sister. So my dear friend Goldilox, L-O-X, like the Gefilte fish because she’s Jewish. She and I started drag together. And we were just two little lonely sisters out in the world figuring out ourselves using YouTube and different people we knew. But sometimes you have a drag mother who helps you learn how to do makeup or lets you borrow their wigs. They take you under their wing and they guide you and they mold you into their image. And you start kind of looking like your mother and then you branch out and spread your own wings into your own way of artform. But it’s just a guiding teacher to help you get started and is there for you. These communities and families are much like real families where your drag mother may also have a mother. So you have a dramother. I am myself a drag mother. 

SARA: Cool. 

JONATHAN: I think I’m the mother to this drag queen. I was like, “You should do this bingo with Goldy and I and be a special guest. You should get into drag.” She did it. She loved it. And now she has her own kids that she’s raising in drag as well. Kids, I mean people who are like 25. Those are kids to me, 25-year-olds. So it’s just interesting to me how the community spreads out and shares its wealth of art, drag, knowledge. 

SARA: And also, I read a lot of community support and protection particularly drag houses. I’ve heard some friends tell some stories about how important they’ve been in their lives because their own biological families were not part of their lives or had shunned them because of their queerness. And so the drag family, the drag house, really became that important point of familial acceptance. 

JONATHAN: I think that’s a big cornerstone to all queer community is that we don’t have any other choice but to rely on chosen family. When your blood or bio family is unavailable and if you’re not straight where you basically breed your own community. We cultivate and collect our community. And those bonds are just as strong or stronger than any biological family that we have. And drag is a great way to bring people together, the art of it, and creating basically theater. And it’s a necessity. 

SARA: That’s great. Here we are starting a new year of 2025. And drag storytimes and drag in general across the country have been quite the political issue and firestorm, really, of the last several years facing anti-drag legislation and protests, and social media attacks, and doxing, and terrible treatment and misinformation. And I want to talk about that a little bit with you. I’m curious if your Drag Story Hour has faced any of that in the last few years. 

JONATHAN: Yeah. We, unfortunately, have been a scapegoat of these culture wars, or whatever you want to call it. And have really been the scapegoat of transphobia in the country and have been a big target for lots of things. We have had to deal with a lot of bomb threats, death threats, hate crimes, all over the country and including the most liberal places, in Brooklyn, in Manhattan, in New York City we’ve had to deal with these things. So no one is really immune to these attacks and it’s been a really difficult battle. 

SARA: I read an interview in 2022 from a drag artist, I think affiliated with Drag Story Hour, talking about – it might’ve been you, actually. I’m just not remembering who – but talking about in 2022 feeling nervous and worried about doing gigs for the first time ever. Like, never having felt that level of worry. 

JONATHAN: It’s changed a lot, just the safety of queer spaces in general, whether it’s drag or not. I think after Pulse it was just really, really shocking, after the Pulse shooting that really shocked the community. Not surprising, but devastating. 

SARA: For sure. Why do you think it’s such a hot-button issue right now? I mean, curiously, it seems like not that long ago, drag was getting some beautiful mainstream media attention with shows like RuPaul’s Drag Race and we’ve seen this sort of de-evolution of that in these culture wars and in this creating a political issue out of drag. Why do you think that’s happening? 

JONATHAN: We’re living through history and I think, at one point in the country, the pendulum has swung so left where we were making so many gains with rights, marriage equality, things were really going a certain way. And I think when a pendulum swings too far one way, it swings just as hard back. And I think what we’re seeing is just the backlash of the progression that we’ve made, all the progress that we’ve made. It’s now just on the back swing. And homophobia, transphobia is never out of style. It just turns at the different ways through time. And I think we’re low-hanging fruit to be the focus of such hate. And I think, since we work with children, children are always used in any movement. 

SARA: Let’s correct some of the terrible misinformation that’s out there. I want to invite you to do some myth busting about drag. Let’s set the record straight. What are some of the misconceptions and mistruths that are being told about drag? 

JONATHAN: I think the biggest thing is that drag is inherently sexual and that drag is dangerous, drag is devious. But any art form can be tailored to any audience member. I’ve never seen any of the criticism be the same for an actor or an actress who does a Pixar voice over and then does an R-rated sex scene for a movie. And Drag Story Hour has been around for 10 years and we’ve been in countless library systems around the country and the world. We’ve been at State Capitols. We’ve been in churches. We’ve been in schools. If anything nefarious was happening, I don’t think people would keep hiring us. And it’s a children’s program where we read children’s books. We sing children’s songs. We do a children’s arts and crafts thing. The most terrifying thing about drag is someone who’s not in drag coming and shooting us, shooting up a club, a bar, a supermarket. That’s the biggest, scariest thing we have to face. Not us. 

SARA: And there’s this other terrible mistruth out there that I hear getting wielded a lot, this idea that “They’re coming from your children!. They’re turning kids queer, gay, trans!” Bust that, what do you have to say to that? 

JONATHAN: If all of that is true, if I was raised by two heterosexual adults in the church, in the south, going to church two to three times a day. That definitely did not make me straight. So just make it make sense. If the argument is “You’re turning kids gay!” and all these things. Well, no, because I’ve been indoctrinated my whole life in a very harmful, horrible way. And what we’re doing is not indoctrination. You’re spending 45 minutes of your time at the local library listening to a story hour. So just make it make sense. 

SARA: I wish that were so easy an argument to fling out there. What do you wish people understood about the purpose and value of Drag Story Hour and also just drag in general? 

JONATHAN: I think people tie concepts and things to words so intensely. When they hear “drag” or they hear “diversity” or they hear “Black Lives Matter” it triggers something in them where they think that they are being excluded or they’re missing out on something. When actually, all these things create equity and inclusion for everybody. And people should realize we do drag every day, all the time. If you are at work and you do zoom meetings, you have to dress up in a certain way. When you go to a wedding or a funeral or court or a first date, you’re going to dress and act appropriately and do different things for different reasons. Drag is the same way. We all do drag. RuPaul said, “We’re born naked, everything else is drag.” You’ve highly curated the image of you. If you put on the camo and have the big, loud, huge truck with the big muffler, girl, you’re doing drag. It’s butch drag. Be like, “Honey, that is the draggiest thing I’ve ever seen is the big truck going down with big flags hanging down the sides.” I’m like, “That is the draggiest thing I’ve ever seen.” But they don’t understand that. And also, there’s so many more interesting things to worry about like the environment, or school shootings. I just would love for people not to be worried about another group that they don’t even have to deal with on a regular daily basis at all. And let’s all operate on a higher frequency and worry about things on a humanity level, like drinking water and breathable air. If we really care about children, let’s worry about feeding everybody and housing them and having some compassion. There’s just such a lack of compassion in the world and it’s truly interesting because I grew up Baptist, in the south, and there’s no hate like Christian love. And it’s just so interesting to grow up, be on the other side of that, know how those communities kind of work and how they think with the hate and bigotry. But also having amazing allies like yourself who are like, “This is really amazing.” There’s always this weird tension with queer people of how they’ve been robbed of spirituality because the church has just squeezed it out of them in such a violent way. And one of the things I love to personally see, is us working with you and your ministry and different things like that where we can bridge back these communities and kind of weave them back together where more queer people can embrace spirituality and find community and fellowship in more ways. 

SARA: Agreed. I love watching when faith communities across the country and friends and colleagues are having drag church in their own spaces and welcoming it as a form of spirituality and religious practice. It’s really beautiful. You mentioned something just a moment ago about how important it is to be compassionate, teach compassion, and have humanity as we’re talking about what’s really important to focus on. What role do you think drag and drag storytelling play in helping kids develop their own empathy and compassion and other important aspects of self? 

JONATHAN: The younger kids experience differences in their life, it’s going to make them make it easier when they grow up to accept the diversity in their community and the world. And drag really highlights a lot of intersectionality. We have a lot of BIPOC, POC drag performers who are also in drag. We have an Indigenous Drag Story Hour which is comprised of trans women that are indigenous and do drag on top of that. So this intersectionality and complexity that kids get to experience at such a young age is celebrated and they are the special guests that come in and read to you. When, in a different world – maybe the world I grew up in – those people were considered too different, or freaks, or they’re less-than. And in this setting, not only are they exalted and put up on a pedestal, they get to share their stories with you and read to you. And I think that’s so important to read to kids, especially from different, diverse voices. 

SARA: Yeah. That’s beautiful. And I’ve also watched how drag and drag storytime in various places has inspired and helped kids find more confidence in just being themselves and being able to express themselves. Drag artists are such beautiful models of that. 

JONATHAN: And drag can be very accessible. And, again, it’s kind of out of necessity, being a queer person, you’re denied a lot of expression your whole life and drag – I think the majority of queer people, if they haven’t tried drag already, or everybody, not even queer people just everyone in the world should try drag because it leads you to all new possibilities, especially learning how to do your own makeup, discovering your own face, your own persona, learning how to style hair, how to sew, how to put outfits together, how to walk in crazy clothes and shoes that you don’t usually do, how to lipsync, how to perform for an audience, this improvisation, how to tell stories and how to gather a crowd. You learn so many really cool, interesting skills in one art form. And it leads to all different things that you get to find out about yourself. 

SARA: I’m sure there are young folks out there in our community, and maybe even grown folks too, who are curious about exploring drag for themselves. What advice would you have for them in terms of how to get started, where to go, where to look? 

JONATHAN: I would say, look in yourself first. 

SARA: I love that you just said “Everybody should try drag!”

JONATHAN: Everybody should try drag. I think drag is as simple as wearing something you wouldn’t normally wear out of the house, that makes you feel uncomfortable, that you kind of really like in the story but you’re like, “Oh, I could never wear that. I could never pull that off.” I think it’s as easy as just dressing a little kooky and crazy and just getting that feeling of, “Oh, I’m really unsure about this. It makes me a little self-conscious. But I kinda really do want to do this and it’s really fun to wear.” Just wear those crazy bell-bottom pants you got at the thrift store or just wear some crazy colored lipstick just for fun, or paint your nails. See how that makes you feel. How does that make you tap your card at the coffee shop differently? How do you interact with people by just doing small modifications with your appearance and seeing how that feels. And then you can go for the whole thing later on. 

SARA: That’s great advice. I think that’s just great advice to help all of us really explore ourselves more and give ourselves permission to not fit into any of the boxes that we have been put in by society. 

JONATHAN: I think we tell ourselves so many things in our mind, good things and bad things. But I think a lot of the boundaries we give ourselves are hindering of what we could be. And telling ourselves, “Yeah. You can do that, girl. You can have that haircut. You can do this. You can talk to this person across the room. You can be confident.” The goal is to feel like you’re in drag all the time, even when you’re not. 

SARA: That’s wonderful advice. I love that. For families and communities that might be hesitant about Drag Story Hour, what would you say to encourage them to attend or support? 

JONATHAN: I would say find one. Research a local Drag Story Hour in your community. And if there’s not one, you can find us on YouTube. You can find us on TikTok and Instagram and watch one from start to finish. If you can’t physically go, you can please like and subscribe and follow us online and see us virtually. And ask around. Ask your library, “Do you have any LGBT Storytimes? Do you have a Drag Story Hour? Is that something you’d like to offer?” You really have to be vocal in the communities you’re in if you want to see something. So if there isn’t a story hour, ask about it and ask if they can look into starting one up. 

SARA: Or your local bookstore. 

JONATHAN: Local bookstore, local faith center, anywhere where people gather, let’s throw some drag in there and it’ll be a fun time. 

SARA: In light of all of the challenges that drag and Drag Story Hour have been facing, I’m sure there are concerns from families around safety. Have you all had to put some safety plans into place and how do you think about your events now in terms of helping create as much safety and inclusivity and welcoming as you can? 

JONATHAN: Yeah. Safety has been a really big concern, especially as of lately. And we have been working on our Shields Up, Safety Marshal program for a while now. And it’s our answer to the backlash and the hate we’ve been getting. And we have been really working with lots of different professionals and experts in safety de-escalation and event safety management. So we are training all of our affiliates across the country on how to manage safety better. How to have a bomb threat safety management plan. How to de-escalate things that are going on, whether that be a protest or a patron or community member that’s upset about this event, and how to keep yourself sane. And after care, how to take care of yourself after a traumatic event. Because right now, right now nothing’s safe. You could go to the store. You could go to school. Nowhere is safe right now. So it’s just really important to check in with people as well and after any traumatic event to take care of one another. But we’ve been working really hard and have been very successful with this de-escalation plan with safety teams. And we’ve found some really amazing groups to help us keep families safe and have them not see the hate when they go to and from events and not even have to think about it. We don’t want to traumatize families. We don’t want to traumatize performers or story tellers. And our business is to keep people alive and safe. If something truly is dangerous, we’re not going to have an event. But for the most part, all these bomb threats are very just the new way to try to shut an event down. 

SARA: I’m really sorry that that’s even an issue and y’all have to even be thinking about that and experiencing that. It’s really troubling to me. 

JONATHAN: Well, you know you’re doing something right when somebody gets mad at you. 

SARA: There you go. 

JONATHAN: But, yes, it is a very serious issue and also frightening for a group of people that says they want to protect children yet also want to blow up a building full of them. So, again, make it make sense. 

SARA: Yes, or stand in front of the window with guns. I want to share a really delightful story with you about this shout-out to our Idaho and Pocatello’s Reading Time with the Queens, big huge program, beautiful job, in tiny, tiny little eastern Idaho. And they’ve run into a lot of challenges over the last several years with protestors. And recently just had a threat that there might be more protests at one of their reading times. And through their networks, they have a rainbow umbrella crew. And they put the call out and 50 people showed up with their umbrellas to make a pathway for kids and families to walk through and block out any potential protestors. And I saw the picture of that and thought, “That’s amazing to me.” I’m so delighted that people will show up for that. 

JONATHAN: Yeah. That’s truly amazing. That’s a really great tactic. There is a nonprofit called Parasol Patrol in Colorado that really has championed that Wall of Love and the protection. And we have Rainbow Defense in Washington D.C., which is another amazing group that uses the umbrellas as this shield and protective barrier which is really effective, even for noise and you get to see pretty colors walking into a space. So that’s always fun. 

SARA: What’s been the most rewarding part of being part of Drag Story Hour for you personally? 

JONATHAN: I think it’s been really interesting how story hour is shaping culture so much. This idea of queer people in costume reading to children, has really shook the country. And starting this, this is just a fun way to do drag and read to kids. And I don’t have to be out in the night life at 3:00 a.m. And now it’s become such a thing. It’s just such a movement at this point. And it’s just really interesting to see where it’s going. And it’s really inspiring and amazing to see all of these different drag storytellers who are in really scary places like South Carolina, North Carolina, and The South and the Southwest who are facing a lot of really scary things, who are still doing this no matter what and they’re not going to stop their activism or their story hours at all, which is really inspiring. So it’s really fun. It’s really cool to see. 

SARA: Very inspiring. That’s great. I love also learning about and watching all the libraries out there that are bringing in Drag Story Hour. It’s really commendable, especially in this moment where libraries are also under attack and there’s this content police and very much targeted at queer themes and queer authors and fueling that anti-queer, anti-drag sentiment. And your website has a great resource on pushing back against book bans and supporting libraries. You have a bunch of great resources on your website. But I just wanted to highlight that one in particular. How do you think about how folks can support libraries and push back against book bans? 

JONATHAN: I think the biggest thing that people can do is to link the fact that book bans and story hour are connected. And banned events are the next version of banned books. And if you know history, nothing good happens when we start banning books, banning events, banning people, banning spaces. It’s not going to end up well. So these things all happen locally. They happen at your school. They happen at your libraries. They happen in your communities. I think the biggest thing people can do is go to their school council meetings, join the PTA. Go to the city council meetings and really raise cane, really stand up on a local level when things get banned or there’s pushback. You really have to rattle the cages of municipalities to get what you want. And the only way out is through. So we’ve got to just keep pushing and just be that really annoying voice that’s always like, “This is injustice and we don’t want this where we live.” 

SARA: That’s a great reminder. Keep pushing. Do you have any favorite books, a couple of recommendations? 

JONATHAN: I have so many books I love to read. I think my favorite, which now is memorized, is Neither, by Airlie Anderson. 

SARA: I love Neither. 

JONATHAN: And that’s a really great book that also kind of flies under the radar and it’s not really in your face of having a queer character up front or someone who’s different. It’s a really beautiful story that really shows a binary system and what it’s like to be out of that binary. And how to find acceptance and community out of that. I also love No One Owns the Colors [by Gianna Davy], what is a really amazing book. It’s really beautifully illustrated. And it talks about how nobody owns the colors and colors belong to everybody. And blue is not meant for boys and pink is not meant for girls. Very simple things, but not so simple for a lot of adults. 

SARA: Right. Right. Right. It’s delightful to me to be around children who so quickly grasp those concepts and just embrace them and go with them and are great models for the adults that struggle. 

JONATHAN: Yeah. And I think a big hesitation for adults is that they may not have all the answers and are afraid that if they do take their kids to a story hour or show them something online, they’re going to have to start answering “Hard” questions. But it’s okay to not have all the answers. And there’s this really great thing out there called “The Internet”. So if you need to find out something or how to say something, you can look it up. You can educate yourself. It’s super easy these days to do that. So don’t be scared not to have all the answers because we don’t. We don’t. 

SARA: We don’t. And I love the invitation from Drag Story Hour that we all learn together? 

JONATHAN: Yeah. We’re all just reading the books, call-and-response. Let’s just figure it out. It’ll be okay. 

SARA: We’ll figure it out. So if folks are in a community and want to help start a Drag Story Hour, how can they do that? 

JONATHAN: Well, there’s lots of ways to. I think the biggest thing is reaching out to us at Drag Story Hour. Obviously we don’t own the intellectual property of reading to kids in costume. We want that to happen everywhere all the time. And we don’t want to gatekeep at all. But with what’s happening with safety and security, if you are doing a program inspired by us or this movement, we would really love to work with you and provide all the resources that we have including, like I said, our Safety Marshal System. We have lots of paid opportunities to get you paid, to get you set up as an affiliate to be successful at your story hours in all different aspects. So definitely reach out to us. And also ask around. You can’t do it alone. So see who performs in drag, who’s maybe never done drag who wants to try it. Reach out to your librarians, maybe some school teachers. Get a whole cohort, posse, house, if you will, together and make magic where you live.

SARA: That’s fantastic. I love it. Thank you for that. Thank you for your time and a great conversation. All of this has just made me want to go to Drag Story Hour and have that experience again because they’re just so fun and delightful. I have some questions that I like to end every episode with and ask every guest. So I’m going to ask them of you. The first one has to do with fierceness. You know the Mama Dragons name comes out of this idea of fierce protection for our kids and a sense of fierceness. And I like to ask my guests, what are you fierce about? 

JONATHAN: I am fierce about accountability. And I think that’s such an important thing that many of us forget about especially in the day of Social Media and Internet. It’s really easy to have an opinion about all kinds of things. But self-accountability in what you’re going, how is that playing into the overall narrative. And I feel very strongly, do something, be accountable, and check yourself before you wreck yourself. 

SARA: Thank you. I appreciate that. So far, I haven’t had any duplicate answers to that question. So it’s really an interesting insight for people. And my last question for you is, what is bringing you joy right now, in particular as we’re facing this coming year and this administration and just life in general feels really hard, especially in the queer community right now? And I want to end on the note of joy. What is bringing you joy? 

JONATHAN: What is bringing me joy? I think it being 2025, new year, and it’s Drag Story Hour’s ten year anniversary. I think it’s really cool that we’re all still here and we’re working with this amazing illustrator, Justin Winslow, who’s been creating all these amazing graphics for our Safety Shields Up System. And just seeing all of our things personified as mythical animals and creatures and castles and trees. And seeing these beautiful illustrations that we use to teach hard core things like bomb threat banishment. But paired with these beautiful children’s illustrations, it brings me joy that we can add levity to things that are really hard and heavy. And if we can do that, we can do anything. So looking at his art, it makes me happy. 

SARA: I love it. I can’t wait to go find it. Friends, we’ll put all the links in our show notes to Drag Story Hour and to the resources and to the books that Jonathan mentioned. Jonathan, thanks so much for spending time with me today. This has been a great conversation. 

JONATHAN: Thanks for having me. 

SARA: You bet. Thanks so much for joining us here In The Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons also offers an eLearning program called Parachute? This is an interactive learning platform where you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at mamadragons.org/parachute. Or find the link in the episode show notes under links. 

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