It Gets Better

Parenting a queer kid comes with so many questions. How do we support them? How do we help them find their community? And how do we make sure they know that no matter what, they are loved and they belong? Since 2010, the It Gets Better campaign has been a beacon of hope for LGBTQ+ youth, reminding them that they are not alone and that a brighter future is possible. What started as a viral video campaign has grown into a global movement, funding life-changing projects and empowering young people to create change in their own communities. This week In the Den, Sara visits with Brian Wenke, the Executive Director of It Gets Better, about empowerment, advocacy, and making sure the next generation of LGBTQ+ youth know they are seen, valued, and powerful.

Special Guest: Brian Wenke

Brian Wenke is the Executive Director of It Gets Better, the world’s largest storytelling effort for LGBTQ+ youth and a leading LGBTQ+ youth empowerment organization. Since 2016, he has led the global effort to uplift and inspire LGBTQ+ young people through storytelling, education, and community-building. Under his leadership, It Gets Better has expanded its reach across four continents and six major languages, leveraging corporate and institutional partnerships to connect with LGBTQ+ youth where they live, learn, and socialize.

Prior to It Gets Better, Brian raised over $25 million to address healthcare disparities (American Cancer Society), global conservation efforts (Greater Los Angeles Zoo Association), and affordable housing and access to the arts (Art Share LA). Brian is a proud alumnus of the University of Cincinnati, College-Conservatory of Music (BFA) and Brandman University (MBA). He currently resides in Los Angeles, California.

Links from the Show:

• It Gets Better on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itgetsbetter
• It Gets Better on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/itgetsbetterproject 
• It Gets Better on IG: https://www.instagram.com/itgetsbetter/ 
• It Gets Better on FB: https://www.facebook.com/itgetsbetterproject/ 
• Apply to the It Gets Better Grant Program here: https://www.itgetsbetterchangemakers.org/ 
• Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.

Transcript

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons. A podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here. 

We here in the Mama Dragons Community know that parenting a queer kiddo comes with so many questions. How do we support them? How do we help them find their own community? How do we make sure that they know that no matter what, they are loved and they belong? Since 2010, It Gets Better has been a beacon of hope for our LGBTQ+ youth, reminding them that they are not alone and that a brighter future is possible. What started as a viral video campaign has grown into a global movement, funding life-changing projects and empowering young people to create change in their own communities.

So I am so excited for our conversation with today’s guest. We are joined by Brian Wenke, the Executive Director of It Gets Better, to talk about the organization, its evolution, and its latest initiative—It Gets Better: Changemakers. Brian, welcome to In the Den. 

BRIAN: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. I know a lot about your work and just honored to have this opportunity to chat. 

SARA: Well, likewise. I mentioned in the intro a little bit about the origin story of It Gets Better. And I have a very personal memory of that original video that went viral of various people and some celebrities sharing their own experiences and really just talking about how life for queer young people really will get better and can get better. And it was very moving. I remember weeping through that video myself. I was working with a lot of youth at the time. Can you tell us more about the origin story? 

BRIAN: Yeah. It has sort of a – I don’t want to call it dark – but it was a tragic catalyst in the deaths of several youth of suicide. And they were perceived to be LGBTQ+ or were LGBTQ+. But all of them were bullied mercilessly. This is the Seth Walsh’s, Billy Lucas’, Tyler Clementi, and this was in 2010. And what I would define now in hindsight as a contagion that motivated our founders who were watching this in terror and feeling helpless and wondering if they had five minutes alone with any of these kids if they’d have the chance to talk them out of it or steer them in a new direction or impart the wisdom to get them to the next day. But the challenge was how do you get that message out there? How do you get in front of young people before they’re in crisis, or when they’re on the verge of crisis? And our founders, Dan Savage and Terri Miller, knew that there wasn’t going to be enough time to get permission from schools, permission from parent groups, and so they just turned to social media. And it was an interesting time for social media. Kind of more of the “wilds” of social media. And it was just starting to take off. And they recorded their story. And it was a very simple formatted story. It was just Dan and Terri sitting behind a table talking about their experiences growing up, their experiences with bullying, with family rejection, and they talked about what they did to overcome it. And the things that happened to them that helped them move to the next stage of their life, i.e. young adulthood intact. And it was almost like a validation, like “I know that it gets better because this happened to me. I got through it and this is how you can get through it too. It will get better for you.” And there was a call to action that other people share those kinds of stories as well. He reached out to his friends, his local network. And the next thing you know, three days later it’s going viral. It’s having a viral moment. And people from all over the world are sharing their stories of hope and resilience and triumph. And essentially gave life to It Gets Better. We’re kind of an accidental nonprofit. The goal was not to form a nonprofit. Dan Savage, if you know him or you don’t know him, Dan is a celebrity in many ways. He’s a very visible activist for the LGBTQ+ community, very polarizing in his own right. But he leveraged his visibility to make a difference. And so in his mind, he’s not thinking about starting nonprofits. He’s on to the next thing. But this really took on a life of its own. People were starting to – they wanted to provide resources, financial and other. And there needed to be a mechanism to make that possible. And so they launched the nonprofit and was very much flying by the seat of its pants for the first five years of its existence. But it’s still going strong today, now with over 70,000 stories that have been collected and shared over the years. And I have to say, we stopped counting because we were never in the business of becoming an archive. The goal wasn’t to create the largest archive of stories. It was just to make sure that we were telling stories that were reaching young people, that had a meaningful impact on their lives. And, ideally, to serve as a preventative measure before young people would fall into crisis. 

And so today, storytelling is still our jam. We are the leading LGBTQ+ nonprofit on YouTube and Tumble and Twitch. And the largest LGBTQ+ youth-centric organization on TikTok. And our stories have evolved. They’re no longer these five-minute testimonials. Young people today, they want micro-content. So our stories have evolved to address that. But we also have an education program that takes these stories and creates education materials and content that we can then push into schools across the country, because that’s where kids are these days. And then we have a global affiliate network. These are organizations that some started with us in the early days of the project, some came later. But they all adopted our mission to uplift, empower, and connect LGBTQ+ youth around the world through storytelling and whatever they feel is necessary for LGBTQ+ youth in their respective countries. And so we’ve got about 19 countries now that represented from Canada, down to Chile, peppered all throughout Latin America and across Europe as far east as India. And Russia is even in there although they’ve had some challenges of late. But they’re still alive and well and doing good work for young people. 

SARA: Well and it’s just so good to know that even in countries where there might be some media challenges that it can be accessed. There is something for them out there in those climates where it’s really tricky. That’s an incredible story.  I did not know all that. I had not followed the evolution of the organization. I’m just so delighted and I want to make sure that I share with our listeners that we’ll put as many of those links, those social links, in the show notes so people can access some of the content that you just described right there. Is there a story that stands out in your mind over the years of someone who either was changed or who shared their story that just felt really – other than the viral video – really meaningful in that moment?

BRIAN: I have to say it’s actually one of my colleagues. We’re all drawn to nonprofit work for one reason or another. And this particular story was special. This is someone who’s been with the organization longer than I have.  He was here when I arrived on the scene in 2016. He just hit his 10-year anniversary. But his introduction to the work, he was raised Mormon, came from a Mormon family. And went to BYU and was closeted at the time. And did not come from an accepting family or it was challenging. And there were some students from BYU that produced an It Gets Better video that he saw that inspired him and motivated him to pursue his greatest potential and to seek out opportunities to exist openly and authentically. And it ultimately drove him to It Gets Better where he actually gets to contribute to this work. So to me, I love his story. He shares it more frequently. He’s very proud of it and it makes me happy to see that. 

SARA: I love that story. And in particular, I feel like there’s a connection with the Mama Dragon’s origin story there, coming from the Mormon community – parents from the Mormon community really – coming together to seek out ways that they could support their queer kids. So that’s a really lovely link right there. You said that you came into the organization in 2016. How did you get involved? Tell us a little bit about your story. 

BRIAN: Do you believe in fate? 

SARA: Oh, yes. 

BRIAN: Because I’ve been very fortunate over my career in nonprofit to be able to pick organizations that speak to me or some element of my past. I started out at the LA Zoo and I grew up in Columbus Ohio with Jack Hannah in the Columbus Zoo. And I used to volunteer every summer. And it was a fun way for me to reconnect with my childhood. But I will say, when it came to LGBTQ+ issues, it was not something I wanted to do. And that was something that I felt like I was pretty adamant about it. I don’t know what it was. And I think I may have had some preconceived ideas of the dynamics of what that sector of the nonprofit industry would be like in terms of an experience. But I also, looking back, I have my own internalized homophobia and issues that I’ve had to unpack over the years. And I landed at It Gets Better, not because I wanted to. But I had hit my ten-year mark at the American Cancer Society. I didn’t want to stay in health care. And I had just finished my MBA and all the sudden, some people were coming out of the woodwork that were identifying themselves as mentors of mine. And I was like, I wasn’t looking for mentors. They’re like, “You need to go talk to this person. You need to go talk to this person. You need to get involved in this and this.” I had to say stop. I don’t want to meet with more people. I don’t know what I want to do with my life right now. And they’re like, “Okay. Just go talk to this one person.” And this was Seth Levy who was the chair of the board of It Gets Better at the time and a founding member. And she’s like, “Just go talk to him. I won’t do anything else. Just go talk to him”. And we met for lunch and he was the sweetest person ever. And the way that he talked about the organization and the way that he positioned the opportunity, it shook me a little bit because I didn’t want to go into this space. I was nervous. And they wanted me to help them find an executive director. He didn’t approach me to talk about becoming the executive director. But I’m like, “I will help you find an executive director and I’ll come up with a job description and point you in some directions on where to advertise.” And a couple of months went by and I followed up with Seth and I’m like, “How is the search going?” And he’s like, “Well. I was kind of hoping that you would apply.” And so I was like, okay, well. And I talked to my husband about it and he’s like, “Just do it. You should do it. It sounds like a cool organization.” So anyway, long story short, I interviewed at a Groundworks Café with Seth and his partner, now husband Brian Pines. And I haven’t looked back. I tried to romanticize it but it was really me just grappling with my own inner demons to not want to jump into the space because I’ve had my own traumas and experiences that maybe I wasn’t ready to reveal and share and tie into my work, which is super important for me in my career. But now here I am. I took a chance and now I don’t want to leave. 

SARA: Well, that’s lucky for everyone. I’m curious how has being a part of It Gets Better and the work that you’re doing changed you? 

BRIAN: It’s definitely made me more empathetic. It’s very easy in this kind of work where you are constantly facing a barrage of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment. You’re dealing with high trauma. You’re dealing with heightened emotions. It’s really easy to always be on the defensive. And I was on the defensive probably for the first few years of my time here. And I’ve come to recognize that it’s not always about me, right? And it’s not always about my experiences from my past that are being triggered by whatever’s happening in the moment and people aren’t intentionally trying to be difficult. But I think it softened me a little bit – and I’m not going to say the word – but I just turned 50, and this is where I flipped the switch on my “zero f’s”. I’m not going to let the world beat me down. I’m Teflon at this point.  But I’m also much more empathetic and much more open to accepting the experiences of others, even if they don’t jive with my values. That’s where I am now.

SARA: That’s lovely and it strikes me as some of what you’re saying fits so beautifully with the impact of It Gets Better  of helping young people – and families, I was moved by those videos – find that Teflon in themselves, maybe helps create it a little bit, helps add to it a little bit, adds to maybe not having any f’s to give. At least the armor, I feel like those stories help us kind of fortify young people and ourselves in a really powerful way that I’ve heard you express about your own story. 

BRIAN: You know, it took me a long time to get here, right? And I do envy folks who are able to get there sooner. But I think we’re all just trying to figure it out. And we have such a short amount of time to work with here while we’re existing on this planet. And for anybody to say that they’re the expert in anything just seems funny to me. Even though we are experts, we do celebrate experts in a variety of different ways. But it’s like we learn about something and then we’re like gone and we’re done. I’m just trying to enjoy what life throws my way as much as I possibly can, doing a lot of gratitude journaling lately. That helps too. 

SARA: That does help. That’s really great. We’ll talk about that at the end of the show. 

BRIAN: OK. 

SARA: The organization’s evolved quite a bit. You told a little bit of that evolution as an accidental organization. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the cool stuff you’re doing now? 

BRIAN: Yeah. I’m so excited. We did a lot of work during the pandemic around our theory of change. And the work that we’re doing, we’re in the middle of a strategic plan that really calls for streamlining programming and deepening our relationship with our priority audience. And right now that’s LGBTQ+ youth ages 13 to 18. I would also group questioning youth in there as well because a lot of what we put out there is more educational to inform a sexual orientation or gender identity journey. But what we’ve discovered is that the work that we’re doing around youth ambassadorship and our grant making had the highest scores in terms of its impact on the community. And so we really started focusing on building up those programs. These young people that have done some of the work – I’m not saying that at 14 or 15 you’ve done all the work – but they’ve done enough work to feel confident enough in who they are to the extent that they want to help their peers and they want to give back to their community. And they are amazing. And it is impossible to lose hope when you are sitting in a room with these incredible young people who are like, “I’m queer and I want to go on the record and I want to talk about it. Or I want to create art around this. Or I want to do something expressive to show my community and my peers that everything’s going to be okay.” And they give me life and I love working with them. So these are our Youth Voices program. It’s a competitive opportunity because there’s only ten spaces available and it runs on the academic year. And we purposefully have only ten so we can give these young people as much individualized attention as possible. And we give them media training. We teach them how to tell their stories. We plug them into opportunities for public speaking. We give them projects. They craft scenes. They do a lot of different things. And we try to focus them on things that they want to do because not everyone is a public speaker. Not all kids want to get in front of a camera. Not everyone wants to put their story on TikTok, right? And so we find a variety of different things that would support their ability to hone their personal form of activism, which is why we only have ten. I would love to scale that up. But in the meantime, we’ve also been focusing on this grant program which is called It Gets Better Change Makers. And so we have been providing grants to middle and high schools across the country and Canada for the last, I want to say, three years. And these are grants that are up to $10,000 for student-led initiatives to create more inclusive environments for queer students. And what’s great about Change Makers because the program’s evolving and we’ve got a significant completion rate. We’ve got about a 95 completion rate on all of these projects. 

SARA: That’s incredible. 

BRIAN: Because we work with these young people, because it’s not easy. They have to navigate administrations and educators and parent groups that don’t want these projects to happen. Sometimes they do. Most of the time they do. But there are obstacles these young people are encountering in the realization of their projects. And to me, that’s where the real value of that program comes into play. Because, yes, I love the fact that these kids are putting together GSA’s. They’re putting together educator trainings. They’re going on field trips to LGBTQ+ Archives in the UN.

SARA: But these are some of the projects the funds are helping to create, the field trips and the GSA’s. 

BRIAN: Exactly. Thank you for clarifying that because I got off on a tangent here. I just got wrapped up in my excitement. 

SARA: I want to hear what they’re doing. These amazing young people, what are they doing with these funds? 

BRIAN: There’s a group in Connecticut, they’ve received multiple years of funding. And the second year, they brought in other schools from the community and took them all on a field trip to the UN in New York. To me, the projects are great. They’re inspiring. They’re super-duper cool. But to me, the real value of our grant-making initiative is the process. So the skills that these young people are picking up in the execution of these projects, having to get partners, community partners, having to rally folks to build the community garden, finding vendors, finding all of the things to bring these projects to fruition. That’s, to me, where the value is. And the projects are great. Who doesn’t love a community garden? Who doesn’t like a queered up library? Who doesn’t love a community art piece? But to me, these young people are getting a head start on building some really cool leadership skills that we know they will carry into young adulthood and beyond. 

SARA: Sounds incredible. You mentioned that – or perhaps you mentioned it to me earlier – some schools have struggled to accept funds or allow these projects for LGBTQ+ projects. Being in a very red, conservative state, I can totally imagine how that could happen. But can you share a little bit more about some of the barriers you’ve encountered and how you’re managing that? 

BRIAN: Look, if you’ve gone to a Parent Teacher Association meeting or you’ve gone to a school board meeting, you start to see how political these environments are. And when you have a federal force saying that “You don’t have to do this. You don’t need to take these funds. You shouldn’t take these funds. Or this doesn’t belong in schools.” And so the school board is like, “I don’t want to deal with this. No. It’s not going to happen.” So there are various [situations] where school boards won’t allow these schools to accept these funds. There are administrators, there are students that can’t find educator partners. There are parents that are like, “This is unacceptable. I don’t want this in my child’s school.” And we help them try to figure out other solutions. And so when we are faced with a situation where a school will not accept funds, and continuing with the project is not putting people’s safety in jeopardy, we just find other ways and other local organizations to accept those funds to work with those kids to get those projects done, right? And that’s what’s special about this latest iteration of It Gets Better: Change Makers we just launched. The proposal window is open now. The deadline for proposals is May 5th. So if you have an idea for your school, go check it out. It’s at ItGetsBetterChangeMakers.com. But we’re there to help. And so schools don’t have to be the focal point of these projects. They can be community projects. They just have to be youth-led. And so we find ways to empower young people to get these projects over the finish line, regardless of whether or not their school wants to implement it or accept these funds on their behalf. We help them identify other community partners to work with to do what they need to do. 

SARA: That is awesome. We will absolutely put that link in our show notes. 

BRIAN: Yes. Please.

SARA: I’m sure we’ll have some families and folks connected to organizations and start to whisper at their young people that there may be some funds out there for some really cool projects. That’s very inspiring. And I’m delighted. I love that It Gets Better doesn’t walk away from the challenge, is actually really helping the students navigate these bizarre challenges and moments that we’re in to ensure that their ideas are supported and funded. 

BRIAN: I kind of want to say we thrive on it. And we don’t want to create difficult situations for young people. That’s not our jam. But we have a team that is very – they love challenges. And they’re like, “Oh, you have a school that’s what? Or you have a parent group that says what? Let me get back to you. Let me convene the troops. We’ll see what we can do. And then we’re going to come back to you with a potential solution.” So I think they like the challenge. And you can say “No” but it doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen. But life powers on. 

SARA: That’s awesome. That inspires me that your team thrives on that in a time when it feels like there’s such an onslaught. As preposterous as it sounds, that a school board would refuse funds for a student-led project because it might have queer in it somewhere or a rainbow. This is the time that we’re in. We’re seeing this everywhere. And we’re seeing our federal government really back that kind of attitude. And it’s exploding everywhere and it’s a very troubling political and cultural moment that’s having a lot of really concerning impact on our queer youth and our families. And there’s just so many anti-queer and anti-trans policies and legislation. And I’m just really curious to hear from you, Brian, what do you make of all of that? And how are you and the organization thinking about your work in this climate? 

BRIAN: I, as an adult, have the luxury of hindsight. And I think I’ve talked about it already. I’ve mentioned hindsight. And I grew up in the 80’s. And I was coming out at the height of the AIDS crisis. And it very much influenced my experiences as a gay man. Not only at that time, but throughout my entire life. And there are young people today that don’t have to experience HIV and AIDS in the way that people from my generation had to. And when I look at what we had to do, our community wasn’t even on the radar. We had to fight tooth and nail just to be seen, to get the federal government to recognize that there was this crisis that was killing our community. We lost an entire generation of queer people at that time. And now we are on the radar. And I know its context and young people today don’t have that historical reference to draw upon. So when I see things happening, yeah, I’m not happy with it. I think it’s gross. I think it doesn’t make any sense to me and I don’t like to see the lives of young people politicized because I have a hard time believing that people care that much about diminishing the humanity of young people. 

SARA: Right. 

BRIAN: I just don’t understand that. And it’s sad to me and it’s gross. But what I’ve tried to focus on at It Gets Better is that while all of these things are playing out in the political theater, while we are litigating legislation, all this stuff takes time. It takes months and years. It’s going to take us a long time to get things back on track. But it is possible. But meanwhile, there are generations of young people coming up and going through high school  and going out into the world. And so to me, I don’t want to lose sight of the fact that we have this much time, a fraction of time, to connect with young people to give them the confidence and resources and tools that they need to enter young adulthood with some degree of preparation. The world does not roll out the red carpet for anyone. We were formed during the Obama Administration, which is arguably one of the most progressive administrations ever. And yet, we were still having crisis moments with young LGBTQ+ people. And so to me, there are organizations that fight legislation, that will push for pro LGBTQ+ legislation. We should uplift them and support them as much as we possibly can. But I am more concerned about making sure that young queer people recognize that that’s happening, that doesn’t diminish your value. That doesn’t mean that you don’t have a right to pursue the same kind of future that anybody else would want to pursue or have the ability to pursue. Yes, your lot in life is that you’re going to have to deal with some conflict. But I will say that maybe that conflict is ultimately going to be good for you in some ways because it’s going to put you in touch with who you are and it’s going to help you understand how you respond to conflict in a way that’s going to help you develop super powers to navigate your future. I’m all about young people. I want to help young people. Let the politics rage. We are trying to stay as focused as possible and not losing sight and not getting distracted by all this betrayal that’s coming out of our government and just focusing on young people and giving them what they need to live the best life possible. 

SARA: I love that you’re helping young people develop their super powers. I love that as a vision. 

BRIAN: Yeah. Queer people are special. And unfortunately, a lot of those super powers are born out of trauma. But I also feel like you need to encounter obstacles to shape who you are. How do you know who you are if you don’t know how to respond to a crisis, or if the world is just made easy for you and you get to just float through life not having any kind of challenges? How do you know who you are? How do you know what your values are? Like, truly what your values are because I think conflict brings that out in you. And I just don’t think young people have enough opportunities to face conflict. I don’t want young people to face adult bullies. I think that’s just unconscionable. I don’t think that’s fair. 

SARA: I think that’s a great point in that queer young people right now are facing a great deal of conflict and with supportive organizations like It Gets Better, they get to really find themselves and find their own growth with a whole lot of support. And I think that’s what’s really beautiful about the work that you’re doing is you’re also ensuring that they know they have supporters and allies and community folks who are behind them so that they can really find their voice and their power and their agency. 

BRIAN: Yeah. It’s tough being a teenager just in general. 

SARA: Yeah. 

BRIAN: All the things. Everyone goes through adolescence, right? Everyone goes through hormonal changes. Everyone goes through that. And everyone is experiencing the same thing. And yes, the queer experience is piled on top of that and makes it more difficult. But it’s that time when young people are trying to find themselves and form their identity. They’re just learning how to think critically about the world. They’re forming their value system. And let’s get in there while things are malleable to show them all the things that are possible, right, in spite of what’s happening in the world. Because when you get old, you get a little rigid, right. And it’s harder to adopt new things. And so you want to get in there while they’re young and the world is a wonder. 

SARA: And isn’t it the historical legacy of some of the most extraordinary social change has come from the younger generation. 

BRIAN: Always. 

SARA: Always. Yes. 

BRIAN: It’s happening even now. And I think it’s so fascinating. Especially with social media, there are clear divides in just the capacity of people to navigate digital spaces and to do so effectively to start building movements. When you talk about organizations like It Gets Better, our ambassadors, they think I’m a dinosaur. And so it doesn’t feel good, but I get it. There are a lot of legacy organizations that are doing really great work. But we’re in a moment right now where these organizations need to start looking to the younger generations because they’re already starting to do it. They’re already starting to mobilize online. They’re forming nonprofits on their own to address the issues that are happening right now. And it’s just a wonder to me. And I look at these older organizations and, y’all better keep up because these –  as great as you are – these young people are creating the organizations and the movements that they need to create the world that they want to exist in. So I have all the faith in young people. As hard as it can be sometimes, as difficult as they can be sometimes. 

SARA: But there’s something to that difficultness that they possess that keeps them pushing and powering through. 

BRIAN: Yeah. We think we can live forever. We’re idealistic. And we have energy. And that is one thing that I’ve loved about working at It Gets Better is that I am a child at heart. And being surrounded by young people and that energy always brings me back, centers me, reminds me of what it was like to be a child, which I think a lot of adults forget. We work so hard to grow up and get out from under our parents’ or guardians’ oversight and we bury it and we forget how amazing it is. The folly of youth, right? It’s wasted on the young. But I think it’s important that adults take time to kind of reconnect with their inner child and to experience the world as a young person. 

SARA: Or to reconnect with some of these fierce young people who are doing cool things in the world. I’m curious what advice you might have for young LGBTQ+ folks who are feeling frustrated in this moment but want to make change and create change out of feeling this discouragement in this political and social climate? How would you guide them? 

BRIAN: I would say there’s a lot happening at all times now. And there’s always something to plug into. And it’s a lot, right? And I would even say that this is advice for allies of youth as well. You have to kind of sit in your space, by yourself, and meditate on this. What is it about this experience that is so valuable to me that I would be willing to put energy into changing it? Right? And for an ally, that might be, “I just have a really cool neighbor that always brings over banana bread. And I don’t like banana bread, but I like the fact that they bring it over. And they’re super sweet. And it has nothing to do with…and it’s just like, I’m going to fight for my neighbor who is queer.” That’s enough. “I’m going to do something. If they invite me to a show or whatever, I’m going to…” It doesn’t always have to be fight, fight, fight, fight. Right? It can just be existing. It can just be wearing a flag on a backpack. It doesn’t have to be what you would consider a traditional activist-y kind of thing. And you create art. Sure, go to a protest or go to a comedy show or just read a book about queer. And it can be a fiction book. I think that there’s too much pressure these days to fight. And I’m not saying that the fight isn’t real and it’s not necessary. But when you talk about messaging and you talk about wanting to change people’s minds, and when you encounter someone who’s like, “LGBTQ+ people are bad.” And then you counter that with, “That’s not true and look at all these statistics that I have to prove otherwise.” And, no, that doesn’t change minds. I think what’s more important now is that we focus on creating a more proactive narrative and recognizing that people are going to believe what they’re going to believe and there’s nothing that we can say that is going to change their minds. But what we can do is start talking about our community and talking about the things that we care about in ways that are maybe a little bit more sneaky in how they land in people’s radars. Instead of saying, “No, LGBTQ+ people aren’t bad.” Just say, “No. I love LGBTQ+ people because they create some really cool art. They are probably the most expressive people that I’ve met. And they’re just really cool.” And I’m paraphrasing but I think it’s important to put those messages out into the world and saying, “You can have your opinion and mine is LGBTQ+ people are glorious.” And I think we need to be more on the offensive because when you’re constantly on the defense and fighting and fighting and fighting and everything’s positioned as a fight, we had even started positioning joy as a way to fight. And I’m like, okay, let’s have joy for joy’s sake. 

SARA: There we go. 

BRIAN: It doesn’t have to be an activist moment. 

SARA: What I appreciate about your reflection here is that what you’re highlighting is that all the ways that we show up for each other, for community, that community care is as much activism as a more traditional activism role we might think of in fighting in the legislature or protests. But there’s this whole wide range of ways in which we show up to be part of the fight if you will, to use that word. 

BRIAN: Sure, pass legislation. Sure, sign an executive order that says there are only biologically two genders. That doesn’t change science and that doesn’t change the reality of the world. That’s not like, “They signed this, then it must be true.” That’s not the way it works. And the media loves to glom onto stuff like this, but at a local level, we’re just all existing trying to live our best lives and trying to get through the day and just to do that unapologetically. 

SARA: Yeah. We had a conversation. We had a team meeting this week and we were talking about this very thing about creating some videos or an episode that is just lifting up queer people living their lives in really cool ways. 

BRIAN: Yeah.

SARA: But just being humans, just doing cool stuff because they’re cool people. Sort of like queer people are lawyers and doctors and teachers. 

BRIAN: You would understand this. And I think part of me – and I’ve done a lot of mediation on this about – what is it about the trans community that is so threatening? And if you’ve had an opportunity to spend any amount of time with a trans person who has fought through their experience to exist authentically as they envision for themselves, it’s kind of awe-inspiring and it’s kind of hard to not take your eyes off them. Not because of the spectacle of it but because you are essentially watching someone that has pushed the expanse of what it means to be human. And when you have someone who is doing that confidently and owning it, you can’t help but reflect on “Well, what am I swallowing, or what am I holding back about my humanity?” And I think if more people had those opportunities just to exist with people from the trans community, I think it frightens people and it challenges our preconceived ideas of what it means to be human and to exist in this society. And I think trans people are beautiful. And it’s strange and beautiful, but not transness in and of itself, but just this human experience that we put so many guardrails on. 

SARA: To just lift up what you just said, being in space, experiencing someone really deeply working to be the most authentic self, to live their most authentic self and express that in the world, that’s what I want for all of us. I want that for myself. And it’s inspiring to watch someone do that with so many challenges and barriers on it. And it’s beautiful. 

BRIAN: It is. I don’t think people want those challenges. I think they would rather swallow something that is meaningful to them and deal with the poison that that becomes over time instead of stepping out and living your best life. 

SARA: And unfortunately, that’s culturally what we’ve created is that kind of poison and toxicity in trying to exist in this world. I want to shift our conversation just a little bit before we close our time together and talk about partnerships because I know It Gets Better has really been doing a lot of work to shore up partnerships with other groups like Mama Dragons, for example, who are existing in this similar space as It Gets Better, but with the parents. How do we support and empower our parents who are parenting queer kids? Talk a little bit about that. How are you seeing those partnerships? How do you think we can work together and in our own communities? 

BRIAN: I think they are critically important. I think it’s very easy for organizations to fall into tunnel-vision mode where it’s like you are aggressively in pursuit of your mission and that has led to – especially in our community – to a lot of siloed efforts that you might even say are duplicative. And so I do think that it is important for organizations to work together. We have a big platform. We reach a lot of people. And there are a lot of organizations that do really critically important work that don’t have that platform. And so if we can elevate that work through our platforms, we’re still achieving our mission, right? And so I think that there are a lot of things that different organizations bring to the table that they might not consider of value. But I think, especially in the visibility space, a lot of the partners that we work with, especially in the corporate space – obviously, most of them are financially driven – but I try to emphasize the fact that it’s not just about the money. American Eagle is one of our biggest partners and they put us on their billboard in Times Square every Pride. And that visibility, we could never afford a placement on a billboard in Times Square. And I think especially smaller organizations, we need to be banding together. We need to find ways to elevate each other because there is some incredible work that’s happening. And you reach an audience at Mama Dragons that we don’t reach. And maybe there are things that we can do with our programming that make sense for your audience. Maybe we can come up with programming together that, even though the way that we design educational materials, it is with the young person in mind, but what if we were saying, “How do we create educational materials for parents using the same content? How do we teach parents and guardians how to use It Gets Better videos to deepen their understanding of their child’s experiences?” And so I think by working together it just opens your mind and gives you opportunities to experience your mission in different ways and through different lenses. And I think it’s so important.

SARA: I’m excited to see what evolves between our two organizations but also personally to dive back into It Gets Better again and go back to that time when I was using a lot of your content in a different time in my life in different work. And I also appreciate you naming the corporate partnerships in this particular political moment, too, where corporations are being shunned or just dropping diversity and inclusion initiatives. And so lifting up those corporate partners that are diving in and strengthening their partnerships with organizations like It Gets Better. Those are the corporations that I want to support and give my business too, for sure. 

BRIAN: Yeah. It’s going to matter. There might be a free ticket to bow out of DEI initiatives and to cut back budgets and to not support the community. But we remember, and young people remember too. A young person, they’re not going to forget. And these are your future consumers. And so you need to kind of keep an eye on the long game. But I also think partnerships, I think that’s what people want to see. Just think how it sounds, “It Gets Better helps young queer people,” or “It Gets Better and Mama Dragons band together to create awesome experiences for young people.” I think it sounds sexier, right? And I think we need to be doing more partnerships. A lot of great organizations out there are doing critical work and we have different audiences to expand our reach. 

SARA: It’s how we uplift the queer community in these times just by talking about all the amazing work that’s being done, large scale, and small scale, and everything in between. As It Gets Better continues to evolve on the ways that we’ve already been talking about here, do you have a long-term vision for what ten, fifteen, years or more from now might look like? 

BRIAN: For the organization or like what we want to see in the community? 

SARA: Both. How about both? 

BRIAN: So just from an operational standpoint, I am very enamored with everything that’s happening in the tech space with AI and how we can leverage AI to amplify our work. That is very exciting to me. And I like the idea of being a very modern-day organization leveraging all the things of tech and human genius to make our organization tighter and more effective and more efficient. In terms of long-term, I really would like to see more work being done internationally. And I know we are very focused on what’s happening here in the US. And I think there is – because of the nature of our community here and our broader community just being citizens of the United states and all the things – we’re a very insular community. We don’t really think a lot about what’s going on outside the US unless we’re at war or unless there are crisis moments that are impacting US Citizens. And so there are some incredibly inspiring programs that are happening throughout Latin America, just over the border in Mexico. This is a country that does not have a national 911. It does not have the glut of resources that the United States has for LGBTQ+ youth. Even though, you Sara, are in a state that has very few resources, when you look collectively at the entire country, there are a lot of resources. And so there are a lot of countries that are just at the beginning stages of their fight for equality when it comes to LGBTQ+ people. And I would like to see more happening. There are still countries that it’s illegal to be out and it needs to be decriminalized. There are still issues with HIV and AIDS that need to be addressed. And I think the more focus we can put on uplifting the international community, it’s just going to rebound for us here in a good way in the US. So that is what I’d like to see. We are a globally focused organization. We envision a world where all LGBTQ+ youth are free to live equally and know their worthiness empowers individuals. But some countries need some help and I think that we can help them to the extent that they want our help. But I think we should be doing everything we can to spread the love. 

SARA: I agree. I agree. And I know Mama Dragons has reach in countries. The beautiful thing about our community is that folks can start their own groups wherever. And social media has allowed smaller communities to form a Mama Dragons in Australia and in other countries. So I’m really excited about that too. I sort of feel like we need each other as dispersed as we are as a global world, we need each other. We need that human to human experience and connection more than ever. 

BRIAN: We do. We should connect on where there are some international Mama Dragons groups. So maybe we can make some introductions. 

SARA: Yeah. That would be great. This has been an extraordinary conversation, Brian. I kind of want to bring you back because there’s so much more that we could talk about. And maybe we’ll have you back as our partnership continues and to talk about some of the cool projects that you all are funding out there. Thanks so much for your time. And just for your inspiring words about the work that It Gets Better is doing and the vision for our world. It fires me up. It feeds in so many of us, I think it is the fuel that keeps us going in these times. 

BRIAN: And just sitting here chatting with you, we’re closing out and I’m feeling better than I did when I started.  I was excited to have this conversation with you. And I think that’s just a testament to the power of human connection. 

SARA: Me too. 

BRIAN: And just being able to chat and empty out what’s in your head and just connect with somebody else, I think it’s really important. 

SARA: Absolutely. I feel similarly. And I have two final questions and I ask these questions of all of my guests at the end of all of our episodes. And the first question has to do with the Mama Dragons name. You know the origins of the name of the organization come out of this sense of fierceness and fierce protection for our queer kids. And so I like to ask my guests, what are you fierce about?

BRIAN: Fierce. I am fierce about staying true to myself. And I say that recognizing full well that I have not been true to myself for a large portion of my life. And maybe it’s because I’m getting older. And we are all unique, magical creatures and we shouldn’t have to diminish our light for anybody. So I’m very protective of my right to exist and to exist how I want to. 

SARA: Brilliant. Beautiful. Thank you. And inspiring. I love these questions because they’re great reminders for all of us of things that we can be fierce about. The second question, the final question for our time together today is – and you referenced it earlier in our conversation so I’m delighted – what is bringing you joy right now? Joy for joy’s sake, what is bringing you joy? 

BRIAN: Joy today is that I get to, when we are done here, I get to go out and meet up with my husband in the desert and I get to spend the weekend with him. We’re going to go watch some tennis. 

SARA: Nice. 

BRIAN: We’re going to relax and my joy is that I get to do that. 

SARA: That’s fantastic. We affirm and applaud all modes of self care and how important it is for us to remember to take time to do those things. Thanks again for this conversation, Brian, and have a great time in the desert. 

BRIAN: Thank you so much. It’s so great to be here. 

SARA: Thanks so much for joining us here In the Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons also offers an eLearning program called Parachute? This is an interactive learning platform where you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at mamadragons.org/parachute. Or find the link in the episode show notes under links. 

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