Trans Mentor Project

We doubt anyone listening to this podcast will be surprised to hear that transgender folks face unique challenges, including social stigma, bullying, and family rejection. Even if we are doing our best as parents to support and love our trans children, most of us are not trans ourselves, and so we can’t fully understand the particular difficulties that our children will face in their lives. And that is where organizations like Trans Mentor Project come in. Trans Mentor Project is a national virtual mentoring program that pairs trans/nonbinary mentees with trans/nonbinary adult mentors. Joining us In the Den from TMP are Kyle and Max. Max is currently a mentor with TMP and Kyle has been part of TMP as both a mentee and an intern. Together, they’ll be able to tell us more about the program and how we can help get our trans kiddos involved.

Special Guest: Kyle

Kyle is a designer and creative strategist whose work centers storytelling and critical inquiry. With a background in education, arts-based research, and trauma-aware peer support, Kyle designs experiences that cultivate connection, expression, and shared meaning. At TMP, Kyle helps shape programs and strategies that empower trans young people—designing zines and community experiences that center their voices, and leading outreach efforts across Southern California. At his core, Kyle is building worlds where people feel valued, welcomed, and free to be who they are.

Special Guest: Max

Max is a multidisciplinary theatre artist living in New York City. He has mentored with TMP since 2023. He frequently volunteers with PFLAG NYC's Safe Schools program, visiting middle and high school classes throughout the city to speak about his personal identity as a gay trans man, combat anti-trans disinformation, and promote safety and inclusion in NYC schools. Max is also one half of the producing team behind "Let’s Hear It For the Boys: A Transmasc Cabaret," an annual variety show which features an entirely transmasculine and trans man cast, band, creative team and ASL interpreter team and showcases new work by transmasc writers.

Links from the Show:

• Learn More About TMP
• Submit art for zines by emailing TMP
• Join Mama Dragons Today

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Transcript

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons. A podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here.

SHAUNA: Hello and welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons podcast. This is Shauna filling in for Sara today. I doubt anyone listening to this podcast will be surprised to hear me say that transgender folks face unique challenges, including social stigma, bullying, and family rejection. Even if we are doing our best as parents to support and love our trans children, most of us are not trans ourselves, and so we can’t fully understand the particular difficulties that our children will face in their lives. And that is where Trans Mentor Project comes in. Trans Mentor Project, or TMP, is a national virtual mentoring program that pairs trans/nonbinary mentees with trans/nonbinary adult mentors. Mentors can provide essential support and guidance and real understanding. As trans folks themselves, they are particularly well equipped to help trans young people navigate their identity, offering a safe space to express themselves and explore their feelings. Today In the Den, we have Kyle and Max with us from the TMP. Max is currently a mentor with Trans Mentor Project and Kyle has been part of TMP as both a mentee and an intern. Together, they’ll be able to tell us more about themselves, the program, and how we can help get our trans kiddos involved. Welcome to the den, Kyle and Max!

KYLE: Thank you for having us. 

MAX: Hello. Thank you.

SHAUNA: Thank you so much for being here. I’m excited to learn more about TMP today. I want to hear about each of you and your stories and backgrounds and what brought you to TMP. But first, could we just do like an overview of what TMP is? And either one of you can start.

KYLE: Sure. So TMP, or we started as the Sam and Devorah Foundation for Trans Youth. And it was founded to honor the life of Sam Price. So after Sam’s death, we were committed to helping trans and nonbinary young people not only survive the stigmatization and discrimination or barriers, but really thrive. And so we really focus on making sure that we focus on a strengths-based approach, making sure that our young people who are involved, we give them leadership opportunities and we make sure that our program is shaped by our community. Max, if you have anything to add, feel free.

MAX: Yeah. I would just share that Trans Mentor Project is, like you said, it’s a totally virtual, national program. We have mentors and mentees in 40 states right now open to folks from any state. And part of being involved in Trans Mentor Project just means that you get access to this social platform and connects you to all mentors and mentees in the program. So you are not only connected to your personal mentor or mentee in that one-on-one relationship. You’re also connected to everybody else through this private social platform with a feed that’s available for anybody to post on. It’s got a bunch of different virtual hang-out groups, like a DND group, and a Creative Expressions group. So it’s much more community-oriented than just that initial one-on-one relationship.

SHAUNA: I love that.

KYLE: I wanted to add that we try to have weekly hangouts. So we body doubling and we have Creative Expressions, like Max mentioned. And a big thing right now is I’m leading the Zines that we have. And so anyone who participates, everyone gets a free printed copy, which everyone is happy about. And it’s a way to honor and empower our youth to have self-expression and to share their stories.

SHAUNA: I love that so much and I want to come back to the zines because my kids are artists and they love that kind of stuff. And so I want to hear more about that. But first, let’s start with Kyle maybe, tell us about you and kind of how you came to find the Trans Mentor Project and what led you here.

KYLE: Yeah. So my background is really in media arts and design. And my big project that I’ve done is Tiger-T Zine, and it’s this Asian and Mental Health collective zine. And I was really stealth and very isolated in my trans identity. And it was maybe the start where I was like, “I really want to see and test the waters of being more involved in a community for trans people.” It’s been kind of hard as a trans guy finding a space that caters, or is safe. So I began looking in Google. I typed up Trans Mentorship. And really, Trans Mentor Project popped up. And so I remember being like, “Oh man. I’m past the age range of 13 and 24.” And so I was like, “You know what, I’ll just try and shoot an email and see. I could be a mentor or mentee.” And luckily enough Carter, our program director was like, “Okay. You’re good. You can get in there. It’s fine.” And since then, I’ve helped out with the youth participatory research program that we have. Well, we bring in mentees to shape our program. We ask them what we need, how we can improve. And since then, it started with a zine and then now I’m an intern here.

SHAUNA: I love that. How big is it? How many people? How many mentors do you have? Do you know?

KYLE: The last time I looked, I don’t know the split necessarily between mentors and mentees. Okay. We have 120 active pairs. And I think in the registration it was 490-something when I last checked.

SHAUNA: That is awesome. That’s awesome you found it on Google. That’s impressive. Google’s good for some stuff. OK, Max, tell us about you.

MAX: Sure. I should say I’m mostly a theater professional. So in my working life I am a theater artist. But I also do a lot of work with organizing and activism within queer spaces in New York City. So I believe I came initially from – I frequently work with PFLAG NYC. And most of what I do is travel into schools around the city across the different boroughs and talk to classrooms, talk to students about my identity as a gay trans man. I answer questions that students have and try to dispel myths about transness. So that’s a lot of the work that I do with PFLAG. And I come to that work from 10 years as an educator. And so I believe PFLAG directed me to the Massachusetts Trans Political Coalition which started a program called the Trans Leadership Academy in, I believe, 2023. And I was part of that initial program. So that was a mentorship program. I had a mentee that I worked with remotely through that program. It was based in Massachusetts. And sadly, that program sunsetted due to loss of funding. So they directed me to TMP as an alternative group that would sort of be a similar opportunity. So I started mentoring about two years ago and have loved it and been involved ever since.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Have you had the same mentee the whole time? How often do you get new mentees?

MAX: I have had two mentees so far. So I had one mentee my first year and fairly recently connected with another mentee. So at the year mark, folks have an opportunity to either continue their existing mentor relationship or move on. So I made that decision at a year with my previous mentee and I’m connected with my new mentee a couple of months ago. It’s been great.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Okay, talk about TMP’s approach to mentoring if you don’t mind, both of you. I’d love to hear what the model is of how the mentoring program works so that our folks can have a better idea and understanding. Kyle, do you want to start?

KYLE: Sure. So our mentorship is structured and we have it ongoing for at least a year. So it’s not just like a short-term thing. We try to make sure that mentees, and the pairs, have a chance to get to know each other, to build rapport, to build that deeper relationship with each other. But one big thing that TMP stands out by doing is that we focus on the strengths of youth. So positive youth development as a theory, we focus on the fact that trans and nonbinary people, the challenges that we face, it’s not like we’re the problem. It’s actually the things that we face that cause problems and challenges. And so we make sure to empower young people to feel like we have agency to build their self-esteem, to build confidence, to shape and frame trans identity as something positive, and to make sure that we empower them to have hope and agency in shaping the lives that they want to live. And so it’s this kind of model where you focus on making sure that we want to affirm trans people to make sure that you know there’s nothing wrong with you. You can live the way you are and that’s fine. It’s really how the world and systemically how that impacts the challenges we face.

SHAUNA: Yeah. I love that. I just did an interview with somebody about resilience. And I was thinking about that in this context, how you guys, having lived the trans experience, can then model resilience and joy and all of those things you were just talking about to your mentees so that they can see. Because, as we all know, it’s really heavy right now for trans people in this country. And finding joy and finding resilience is such an important part of surviving that. That’s awesome. Max?

MAX: Yeah. I can share a little bit about the format if that’s useful. So in practice, the mentorships are – so depending on if you are a minor or not – your first session might have a parent or guardian involved. So that first virtual session where you’re meeting with your mentor and getting to know them, your parent or guardian is expected to be on the call if you’re under 18. If you’re over 18, then you can just sort of jump right in and get to know your mentor privately one-on-one. And then from that point on, mentors and mentees – if they decide that they liked their initial meeting and want to continue getting to know each other – then can set a regular time, regular date during the week. And that’s totally up to the mentor and mentee to decide on together. So it’s completely flexible in terms of frequency of meeting. I’ve had some – I’ve had a mentee where we’ve met maybe once every month or two months. And now I’ve had my current mentee, we meet I’d say every week. So the frequency can change depending on your personal needs and your schedule. But for minors, the parents get to be involved in that first session. And I share that because, I think one of the most impactful things about the program for me has actually been getting to interact directly with parents and guardians. I think what’s really special about that is that for a lot of parents and guardians – as you were sort of getting at earlier – a lot of parents and guardians of trans kids don’t know trans folks personally or maybe don’t have any trans adults in their life. And so I think what’s really nice about the opportunities to connect with parents and guardians directly is that you’re giving them a model of trans adulthood and trans futures. And I think that can be really relieving for a lot of parents and guardians. I feel like I’m giving them the opportunity to see there’s safety and joy available to their kids or their loved one. And it’s a necessary counterpoint to a lot of the fatalistic headlines that we see about trans kids and trans teachers. I think, for a lot of parents and family members and guardians of trans kids, their assumption is that coming out as trans is a death sentence and that I meant their life is over. And I think it’s really important for parents and guardians and family members to see, actually there are huge spots of thriving and happy and successful trans adults who are living their best lives after coming out. So I think that element of it where we get to be connected to the loved ones of trans folks is really special because sometimes I feel like I’m giving them a dose of hope that maybe they’re not otherwise getting.

SHAUNA: Yeah. That makes sense. Do you get a lot of resistance from parents? I think about that. I’m guessing that the parents who are willing to show up with their kids to this program are the ones who are relatively supportive of their child’s trans identity. But is that something that you mentor with kids about, about parents who are maybe struggling to understand their child’s identity?

KYLE: One thing that is a challenge is the need for caregiver consent in our program. I think it sucks, right, because most of the youth who don’t have supportive parents are the ones who really need something like TMP. We do have some caregiver groups and resources for caregivers. But I think it’s taking that initiative for parents to be open to it. But that is one limitation. It's a matter of having at least one caregiver who is supportive. Especially for minors, it’s still kind of capped at that.

SHAUNA: Right. I think that that is a common problem for trans youth is finding a supportive adult who will support them through their journey. It’s all online, is that right? The mentor project is all online? Can you tell me more about that?

KYLE: Sure. I mean the biggest positive to having a virtual online space is TMP was designed to overcome barriers to care and isolation. So we make sure that TMP is accessible to anybody. So it can be any geographic location, from rural areas, urban, suburban, anywhere. There are a lot of LGBT and trans organizations, maybe in certain parts of the country but maybe not in others. And there are people with barriers to transportation, disability and chronic illness. And we wanted to make sure TMP would be accessible to those people. But I also wanted to speak to the power of mentorship and that relationship. What Max was talking about, giving that dose to people. I mean, I started as a mentee and really I was looking for proof that it was possible to live a fulfilling life as a trans person. And I think the biggest perk with TMP is we really focus on making sure the mentee has the power and agency to choose what kind of mentor they want. So we have these bios where mentors share their identities, maybe their first-gen, or they’re college grads, or they’re not college grads, or they’re immigrants, or they’re neurodivergent, or they have experience with hormones. So they have the agency to pick. Do they want to talk about career? Do they want to focus on transition? So it's really kind of encompassing all life areas.

SHAUNA: That’s super exciting, I think, because a lot of times, trying to find the specific needs can be challenging. And so I love that you have them listed so that they can go like, “This is what I’m looking for. This is what would be helpful for me.” That’s awesome. It’s just the United States, is that correct or is it worldwide?

KYLE: Yes, it’s the US.

SHAUNA: US. Okay. Mama Dragons is mostly US too. We do have some groups outside of the US so I just wanted to clarify that. Okay, safety of participation, I know that that is something that a lot of parents worry about just in general, safety of their kids online, especially safety of their trans kids. Tell me about the safety of participating in TMP, please.

MAX: Yeah. I would love to start by saying that I think a real concern for trans folks online right now is this idea of cyber security and data privacy. It’s fair to be concerned about how your data is being shared and used online right now on wider social networks, places like Facebook and Instagram. These are platforms that are often unsafe for minors particularly, and freely sharing information with corporations. So something that’s really great about TMP is that it offers its own social platform. So it is formatted, I would say, in a way that's visually similar to the Facebook interface. You’ve got a sort of home feed where anybody in our program, mentor or mentee, can post and share about upcoming events, opportunities, writing submissions, job opportunities, what’s going on in their lives. There’s a main feed and then all mentors and mentees have their own profile where they can share, like Kyle was saying, various identities that they have. They can share interests. They can talk about what they’re looking for in a mentor/mentee relationship. And none of this data is shared publicly. So it’s an entirely sort of internal, non-public platform with, again, over 35 discussion and interest groups and affinity groups. So those range from Queer Trans BIPOC folks. There’s a whole group for BIPOC individuals in the program. There’s a group for trans joy, sharing wins and success that folks have. There’s a group that’s specifically an anonymous Q&A, where folks can ask questions that they have and get them answered by other folks in the group. So all of this is totally exclusive to other folks in the program. None of this data and information that folks are sharing is accessible to corporations or being sold to advertisers.

SHAUNA: I love that. Mama Dragons recently moved from the Facebook platform to our own private platform as well for the same reasons of safety and data sharing. So I appreciate that. It seems like also there are some pretty strong training and background checks for mentors? Okay. What about matching mentor and mentee, is just the mentee picks the mentor? How does that work? Kyle, do you want to talk about the matching because you were a mentee, right?

KYLE: Sure. So it’s pretty full circle. Starting as a mentee, we meet with our program director and we kind of share what we’re looking for, what our needs are. And we’re given a set of bios from mentors that we can potentially be best matches. And, you know, it’s really based on what you’re looking for. And that’s really the power of that because we really want our mentees to set the tone for the relationship and pick the kind of mentor they want to have. And, on the rare occasion that it’s not a great match, there’s always the opportunity to switch out and figure out what a better match would be. And it’s pretty cool because starting as a mentee, now I’m an intern, but I helped out kind of revising our bio guidelines to share like, “What would be helpful? Are you someone who uses humor? Are you more solution oriented? Do you give more validation?” You know, that’s kind of – rather than just a lot of shared interests, but also communication styles and the approach in the relationship can really matter to young people as well. So that’s part of that.

SHAUNA: That’s fantastic.

MAX: I also, I would love to just uplift again how great it is the TMP gives folks the opportunity to match with another trans person on the basis of shared interests and affinities as opposed to just simply the fact of being trans. I think, oftentimes, when folks come out that’s the way these things go is they sort of maybe get pushed together with the closest trans person in their proximity, especially for folks in more rural areas who maybe have less queer community access. So I think that’s something that’s really special about this particular platform is that you’re getting the chance to pick somebody who is the right fit for you in other ways beyond just also being trans. For instance, a young, black trans girl is going to have a very different experience than an adult, white, trans man for instance. Like those two people might not have a lot in common. And so TMP gives the chance to match with somebody who maybe shares more of your experiences or is able to speak to some of the things that you’ve personally gone through in a way that’s more targeted and specific than just sort of over being trans.

SHAUNA: It recognizes the total humanity of people, right? You are more than just one part of yourself. And I think that that’s fantastic that you make an effort to connect people on multiple levels with others that can be helpful. Okay, training the mentors receive, can you tell me more about that?

MAX: Yeah. I guess I’ll speak to that as the mentor in the room.

SHAUNA: You’ve been doing this for a minute.

MAX: Yeah. So again, just to echo what was said earlier, training is very thorough. All mentors are vetted and screened and go through references before being brought on board. So part of the training involves you go through your modeling interactions that might occur with a mentee and your navigating appropriate boundaries with a mentee. So there’s a set of guidelines that mentors follow about – for instance, we are not in touch outside of the platform. Communications are contained within the platform. You are not a licensed mental health provider. We make no illusions about being trained therapists or psychiatrists. We are meant to be social supports, we are not necessarily qualified to give medical advice or emergency services. So we’re very clear on what the parameters of the mentor/mentee relationships are and what they are not. And so for me, a lot of what I do as an educator translates to mentorship. But some of what I do in mentorship is unique to that relationship. For instance, if the mentee wants to ask about my experience with transition or my experience pursuing healthcare, then that’s something that I might speak to in a session. Or, if the mentee has questions about navigating relationships or friendships, they’re more personal topics than I might cover as an educator in a classroom setting that are suited to a space like a mentor program.

SHAUNA: That makes sense. Okay, I would love to hear, Max, about your work in schools. That’s with PFLAG, right, that you’re doing work in schools?

MAX: Yes. Yeah.

SHAUNA: And these are public schools and they just let PFLAG in?

MAX: Yes.

SHAUNA: That’s amazing to me as someone in a super conservative state.

MAX: Yeah. So it’s actually for listeners at home, actually you’re not getting the visual experience of me sitting in a teachers lounge as we speak after having just concluded one of these volunteer shifts. So I’m at the scene right now. So basically what I often do with PFLAG, the majority of my volunteering with PFLAG, is with their Safe Schools Program which invites both representatives from PFLAG NYC, from their staff, and volunteers to come into New York City public school classrooms and talk to students about queer and trans events. So usually the structure is we start with defining LGBTQIA, we start by defining these terms. We answer questions about the differences between sexuality and gender. And then we get into personal story telling, so we’ll share a little bit about our own coming out stories or our own ally stories. PFLAG is a largely ally-based organization that focuses a lot on non-queer allyship and forging bonds within families. So after we share personal stories, we’ll sometimes take questions from students and/or teachers and try to dispel some anti-queer, anti-trans talking points or disinformation that’s propagating in the headlines. So that’s the work I do with Safe Schools. And I love it. I highly recommend, I think there’s probably a lot of listeners to this podcast who would benefit from PFLAG if they are not already. So I would encourage folks who are listening to get involved with your local PFLAG chapter. There’s lots of support for families and friends of queer folks at different PFLAG chapters.

SHAUNA: I would for sure second PFLAG as a resource even – I live in a conservative state – and PFLAG is amazing here to connect us with other families who need also support. So look up your local PFLAG chapter, please. That is amazing work. I love that you’re able to do that and that the schools are open to that and that you’re doing that. That’s such important work. So thank you for doing that. Kyle, first I want to hear about your experience as a mentee, what it meant to you, anything you’re willing to share about your personal experiences being a mentee in TMP.

KYLE: Sure. Yeah. When I first started my mentee journey with TMP, I had actually – it was, I think, the first year I was there or started I had just met another trans man in person for the first time. I joined a camp and that’s how like, I want to be more involved in community and what I was really looking for was another trans guy who was that model for a future that was fulfilling, some kind of future that you don’t have to split yourself up because kind of juggling a split life of being stealth in one area of my life and then being kind of out selectively and juggling relationships. It’s a lot. And so I wanted to see a trans adult, further ahead, whether that’s their career or creative pursuits, and how they were navigating all of that. And it’s been so rewarding to see that it is possible to have a life where you don’t have to split yourself up to have a good life. So that’s a big thing. And I think more than that, I think what Max was talking about, going back to the youth-positive development theory, it’s that transness is so heavy. And I think a lot of the time, even in the media, all the things we see, it’s like trauma related and the sad things that we hear. And I think matching with someone who has shared interests and just vibing, just hanging out and talking about fun stuff, talking about our cats, rather than – it doesn’t always have to be heavy. And I think that’s what I love. Sometimes you just want to connect with another trans person who gets it beyond the hard stuff in life and more about just life in general, being human. And that’s the best thing. And I love that TMP has that where we have the agency to start conversations and pick the topics we want to talk about. Mentors never bring up sensitive topics. Mentees always have the choice to decide, “Oh, I want to talk about this.” And even mentors can share, “Oh, I’m not comfortable about that,” setting boundaries, being clear in the relationship like what you’re willing to talk about and what you’re not willing to talk about. So it’s been very rewarding and I just feel so supported and empowered because sometimes a lot of things get you down. And I think having someone in your corner who really sees you and believes in you sometimes before you can see that for yourself, it’s been totally empowering and has led me to being an intern with TMP.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Kyle, I’m also super interested to hear more about the zines. Will you talk about that?

KYLE: Sure. So we do three every year for Trans Day of Visibility in March, and then Pride for June, and then Trans Day of Remembrance for November. And anyone who participates, whether they submit any kind of medium actually, we made it work. Sometimes people send videos in, I do a QR code. They can do poetry, stories that they write, collages, paintings, drawings, comics, anything. And I’ve had experience doing zines before and so it was really awesome to have that opportunity to work with TMP and to shape that. And trans youth and trans young people in our program, we have different themes every time. And so our last one was, “Hope in the Midst of Despair” for Trans Day of Visibility last year. And then for Pride we had "Cultivating Pride” and it was kind of growth themed, so it’s kind of garden, roots blossoming, and things like that. So we have different themes and I try to be creative. And our last one was “Threads of Time.” And so it’s kind of honoring the past, but looking towards the future for Trans Day of Remembrance, beyond grief, beyond the sad things about Trans Day of Remembrance, it’s also honoring our ancestors and trans-cestors. So, yeah. We try to be creative and shape that. And we send out submissions. Anyone can submit and we put it all together.

SHAUNA: Yeah. I was going to ask, anyone can submit art?

KYLE: Yeah.

SHAUNA: That’s so fun.

KYLE: And even after, beyond our trans community and TMP, we make sure last names are omitted for safety, privacy reasons. We still honor that throughout all our stuff. And so after we share our zine theme for that time, we share it with our community and then outside of our community. So we’ve had people, I think we’ve had a trans person from London to share. And we do outreach and we share it and so anyone really who wants to be part of the zine, it is truly a trans community zine.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Would they find the information about that on the website or just by joining TMP? What’s the best way to get connected with the zines?

KYLE: It would be best to join TMP, I would say. But we also have an Instagram that we share the theme for the month, or the three times that we do it. So that’s probably our best bet.

SHAUNA: That’s awesome. That is so cool. Okay, Max, I would love to hear your personal experience with being a mentor in TMP.

MAX: Yeah. I love that Kyle mentioned that oftentimes mentorship looks like just talking about people’s cats or what they’re friends are up to. We’re often not talking about trans stuff in sessions necessarily. I mean, it’s certainly not a prerequisite. We don’t have to talk about anything trans related with your mentor/mentee. My first mentee, for instance, I think most of what we talked about were media-verse. We talked about a lot of YouTube channels that my mentee was into and traded recommendations to video essays and talked about video games. Rarely did we talk about anything trans related. But when it did come up, it was nice that we had that sort of foundation that was built on non-trans sort of shared interests. With my current mentee, it’s fun because I’m working with somebody, I’m meeting with someone now who is in a different phase of life than my first mentee and is also, funny enough, an artist. And so we get to talk a lot about art and sort of brainstorm together and riff off each other’s artistic pitches. And I always check in with my mentee to ask if they’ve got new projects that they’re working on, if they have a work-in-progress that they’d be willing to share. And I get really excited to see where we’re at with the different pieces that they’re working on. So I think my feeling when it comes to working with young people right now is it’s got to be so hard to be a kid in the world right now. And not just a trans kid, but any kid. The world is really scary and intense and unpredictable. And so I think it’s really wonderful to get to be a sort of anchor to a young person at this particular moment in time. I feel like, if nothing else, I’m just a familiar face that they get to see on the regular and maybe that gives them a little bit of consistency that helps them get through their day-to-day. So that’s my general ethos.

SHAUNA: That’s awesome. Kyle, what would you say to people, trans folks, who haven’t connected with TMP yet, but are kind of interested but maybe a little nervous about it? What would be your advice for them?

KYLE: Well, firstly, I’ve been there. It’s totally normal. I think to join community and to be part of a community, it’s a very reciprocal relationship and I think it’s okay to be nervous, especially when sometimes relationships involve being vulnerable and sharing yourself with someone else and it involves trying to trust someone, getting to know them, and taking that risk to see if you’re going to vibe with this person, if not. But I think it’s so worth it. It’s so worth it when you put yourself out there and you meet someone who really supports you, where you feel seen and empowered. And it’s not a relationship you can just find anywhere. It’s so hard to find. I’m based in a place that’s very – I’m in an urban place where there’s a lot of resources. But even then, it’s hard to find another trans guy who gets it, who might humor me in my Pokemon endeavors, games and art and all these things. Like Max was saying, we want someone else to see us as human first and then also have that safety of knowing that no matter what, my trans identity doesn’t impact that. They don’t seem me less or different or they don’t care about me less. It’s not conditional on us being trans. And so I think it is scary, but the best thing is you can put yourself out there. You can try. And just remember that if you don’t like it, and if it doesn’t work out, you can always try again. You can change your mind. And I think, for me, that’s been a good reminder because sometimes when you make a decision, you feel like I’ve got to stick through, I’m stuck, I’m trapped. But really, just reminding yourself that you have agency. And even TMP really focuses on that, making sure that you have the choice. You can decide what you want to share, what you don’t want to share, what the relationship ends up being like. If you want it to be all about just art, it can be that. You want it to be about your potential career, heavier things, or trans specific things, it’s your choice. And so that’s kind of my advice.

MAX: On the topic of agency, I just wanted to share something I haven’t mentioned yet that is also really beautiful about this program. I was tabling at a Pride event for TMP last night. Somebody came up who is a trans adult who said, “I’m interested in being involved in the program, but I don’t know if I’m qualified to mentor.” And I think that’s not an uncommon sentiment. I don’t necessarily feel qualified to mentor either and I’ve been mentoring for two years. I think what’s really lovely about a program like this is that for a lot of folks it helps to maybe affirm your ability to be a support to someone else. And you don’t have to have a background in education or child care to be that person. I think all of us are capable of being that person. I think it’s nice with TMP to be a mentor because it sort of gives you the sense that you’re capable of something that maybe you didn’t think you were. So I think that’s something that folks can get out of it is, maybe you’re somebody who is a trans adult, you want to help out in some way, but you don’t feel like you have what it takes to be a mentor or you don’t feel like you know enough, or have the right background. And I just want to say, there’s no “right,” necessarily. Mentorship can look like a lot of different things and a mentor can look like a lot of different things. And for adults who are interested in helping and providing support to trans youth, really the only prequalification is being willing to show up and be there.

SHAUNA: Yeah. That’s what I was going to ask. So the qualification is just a desire to show up and be a support. Is that right?

MAX: Yes. And of course, mentors are trained and get background checks. And we are required to submit applications and answer questions and go through all of the things that you might go through with a job interview. But mentors don’t have to be from a particular professional background or have worked with certain communities in the past. There’s no requirement that you come from a background of already having mentored with a different program. So those aren’t the sort of prequalifications that TMP is looking for. The main prequalification, being interested, being willing to show up, applying, caring about trans youth, wanting to help raise the next generation of trans youth into trans adults. That’s really what TMP is for.

SHAUNA: It makes me emotional. I love that. Thank you. Okay, are there any other things that we haven’t touched on about TMP that either of you want to talk about as our time is quickly coming to a close?

KYLE: One exciting thing is, while I was from a mentee role and then stepping in to intern, I’m actually starting to mentor someone this week. So that’s super exciting. It feels like full circle. And also one thing, I guess, for anyone nervous is that, don’t be afraid to share what is bothering you and what you need. We’re all here to support you and TMP is really good about making sure that you get what you need from the mentorship relationship. And applications are always open. So sign up.

SHAUNA: That is great to know. I hope you get a big influx of people signing up after this podcast. Max?

MAX: I was going to share, there are lots of community engagement opportunities. So, again, beyond that one-on-one relationship that you have with your mentor/mentee there are always events happening virtually on the platform. So you can tune into our regular coffee hours, which are sort of accountability hours where you can come in and work on homework or fold laundry or whatever and just be in the same virtual space as other folks. There are movie nights where we’ll virtually stream films together and talk and chat to each other about them. I have hosted a couple of events. I love that TMP is really open to programming by program members. So something that I did last year, and also the year prior, is screen a recording of a show that I worked on which is specifically an all trans show that I produce. And so I wanted to share it with the TMP Community. It felt like the right audience. And that’s something that TMP has been really supportive of. If you’ve got a pitch for an event or program that you think the community might benefit from, TMP is open and willing to host it. Same with panels, or webinars or discussion forums. Those are all one-off events, special events that can happen through the TMP platform so that I think it will excite you.

SHAUNA: That is exciting. I think that all sounds super interesting. Okay, anything else before I ask you my final two questions?

KYLE: One more thing. So we are hosting our first event – well, we’re doing a lot of events – but our first event in the west coast. So if you want to learn more, I’ll share a little bit about it. It’s a pretty casual drop in and the idea is “Things that Stuck with Us.” And it’s a community show and share. So rather than it being a workshop or something really educational, we wanted it to be more community-oriented for people to get the chance to connect over something they love and something that means something to them. So we’re inviting trans and nonbinary people to come by, share a zine, share a book, drop a song in our collective playlist, share art that they care about and we will kind of browse through it. And people have the opportunity to join and be part of our Trans Day of Visibility Zine for March. And so, if people are interested in that we can share more details. They can email tmp@samdevorah.org. And Sam Devorah is S-A-M-D-E-V-O-R-A-H. So, it will be exciting!

SHAUNA: And we’ll put that in our show notes too, if you didn’t write that down. Thank you. That’s really cool. So fun. Okay, our final two questions we ask everybody and it’s some of my favorite questions. So Mama Dragons, the name “Mama Dragons” came out of a fierceness for our queer kids, like you know mama bears, and then you’ve got to breathe fire for your kids. So we’re fierce about protecting our queer kids. What are you fierce about? Kyle, do you want to go first?

KYLE: Sure. Sure. You know what’s funny, actually, I love your name because I love dragons. And I started a dragon club in middle school, so I’m a little partial to the name.

SHAUNA: Love it.

KYLE: But, yeah. But more symbolically, I love that question you have. And what I’m fierce about is truth and dignity, especially the right to have intersectional identity, to have complexity without having to justify or explain yourself. I think the biggest thing I’m all about is pushing back against narratives that ask people, especially trans young people, to flatten themselves, to simplify who they are and to hide themselves to just be accepted by people. And I think truth and dignity is about care that’s real, not just performative or symbolic or just having good intentions, but really systems and relationships that actually respond to people’s needs, just like TMP. And that’s why I’m here. And that’s why I work for them. And I love our mission because we really do something that works and we’ve seen it change people's lives. And young people feel empowered.

SHAUNA: Love it. Max, what are you fierce about?

MAX: That was just a gorgeous answer.

SHAUNA: Wasn’t it?

MAX: I would say collectivism is my guiding light. I really believe, and especially right now, in shared justice. And I think it’s crucial that trans people show up for immigration justice and for protections for black and brown folks, and for safety for disabled folks and inclusion for disabled folks. I think all of those things are essential to each other, essential building blocks for collective liberation. Especially living in the US, I find that I constantly have to sort of reground myself in the possibilities of collective solidarity. And that’s a more global, I think, perspective on how we move through the world and how we get things done. And it’s something that the ways we operate in the US and the systems that have in place are constantly pushing us away from. So I really strongly believe in collective action, solidarity, unionizing, finding ways toward each other even in the scary moments when maybe there are some fists that pull apart. We have to let the scary things push us closer together and bring us into love and care rather than fear and isolation.

SHAUNA: Those were both such good answers. I love both of them. Thank you. Our final question is, what is bringing you joy right now? We know everything is heavy. We love us some trans joy. So what is bringing you joy right now, Kyle?

KYLE: Yep. That’s a great question. For me, it’s being involved in communities such as Trans Mentor Project. Another community I’m part of is Pane and Brain. It’s like an art, mental health community, an Asian men’s mental health group. But on a real level, I love my two cats and just eating good food and spending time with my partner. So finding time for just down time beyond all of the things going on in the world. But even that, I think being part of this podcast and knowing that there are moms and parents and families out there who really are fierce about their trans and nonbinary young people and their kids, that brings me joy too.

SHAUNA: Thank you. Max?

MAX: I’ll give a slightly unserious answer, which is sometimes in the midst of global political backsliding and anti-queer sentiment in politics, you have a beautiful bright spot in which a gay Canadian hockey show is somehow mainstream culture. And I think that is beautiful. I, like many a gay person, have been enjoying Heated Rivalry. And shout out to Harrison Browne who is the first out, trans professional hockey player featured in that show.

KYLE: Oh, that’s cool.

MAX: So, I’ll say my unserious answer is the gay hockey show. [indiscernible]

SHAUNA: I love it so much. We take joy where we can find it and that is a place of joy. That’s so great. I want to thank you both again for taking time out of your busy lives to come and tell us more about TMP. I’m super excited about it. I hope a lot of our moms share it with their trans kids and that we send a bunch of more mentees/mentors your way. So thank you so much for being here. We appreciate you.

KYLE: Thank you for having us. It was so nice to meet you and be part of this.

MAX: Yeah, Thank you. This was a blast.

SARA: Thank you so much for joining us here In the Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons offers an eLearning program called Parachute? This is an interactive learning platform where you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at Mamadragons.org/parachute. Or find the link in the episode show notes under links.

If you enjoyed this episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to tell your friends and leave us a positive rating and review wherever it is you listen. Good reviews make us more visible and help us reach more folks who could benefit from being part of this community. And if you’d like to help Mama Dragons in our mission to support, educate, and empower the parents of LGBTQ+ children, please donate at Mama Dragons.org or click the donate link in the show notes. For more information on Mama Dragons and the podcast, you can follow us on Instagram or Facebook or visit our website mamadragons.org.

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons. A podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here.

SHAUNA: Hello and welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons podcast. This is Shauna filling in for Sara today. I doubt anyone listening to this podcast will be surprised to hear me say that transgender folks face unique challenges, including social stigma, bullying, and family rejection. Even if we are doing our best as parents to support and love our trans children, most of us are not trans ourselves, and so we can’t fully understand the particular difficulties that our children will face in their lives. And that is where Trans Mentor Project comes in. Trans Mentor Project, or TMP, is a national virtual mentoring program that pairs trans/nonbinary mentees with trans/nonbinary adult mentors. Mentors can provide essential support and guidance and real understanding. As trans folks themselves, they are particularly well equipped to help trans young people navigate their identity, offering a safe space to express themselves and explore their feelings. Today In the Den, we have Kyle and Max with us from the TMP. Max is currently a mentor with Trans Mentor Project and Kyle has been part of TMP as both a mentee and an intern. Together, they’ll be able to tell us more about themselves, the program, and how we can help get our trans kiddos involved. Welcome to the den, Kyle and Max!

KYLE: Thank you for having us. 

MAX: Hello. Thank you.

SHAUNA: Thank you so much for being here. I’m excited to learn more about TMP today. I want to hear about each of you and your stories and backgrounds and what brought you to TMP. But first, could we just do like an overview of what TMP is? And either one of you can start.

KYLE: Sure. So TMP, or we started as the Sam and Devorah Foundation for Trans Youth. And it was founded to honor the life of Sam Price. So after Sam’s death, we were committed to helping trans and nonbinary young people not only survive the stigmatization and discrimination or barriers, but really thrive. And so we really focus on making sure that we focus on a strengths-based approach, making sure that our young people who are involved, we give them leadership opportunities and we make sure that our program is shaped by our community. Max, if you have anything to add, feel free.

MAX: Yeah. I would just share that Trans Mentor Project is, like you said, it’s a totally virtual, national program. We have mentors and mentees in 40 states right now open to folks from any state. And part of being involved in Trans Mentor Project just means that you get access to this social platform and connects you to all mentors and mentees in the program. So you are not only connected to your personal mentor or mentee in that one-on-one relationship. You’re also connected to everybody else through this private social platform with a feed that’s available for anybody to post on. It’s got a bunch of different virtual hang-out groups, like a DND group, and a Creative Expressions group. So it’s much more community-oriented than just that initial one-on-one relationship.

SHAUNA: I love that.

KYLE: I wanted to add that we try to have weekly hangouts. So we body doubling and we have Creative Expressions, like Max mentioned. And a big thing right now is I’m leading the Zines that we have. And so anyone who participates, everyone gets a free printed copy, which everyone is happy about. And it’s a way to honor and empower our youth to have self-expression and to share their stories.

SHAUNA: I love that so much and I want to come back to the zines because my kids are artists and they love that kind of stuff. And so I want to hear more about that. But first, let’s start with Kyle maybe, tell us about you and kind of how you came to find the Trans Mentor Project and what led you here.

KYLE: Yeah. So my background is really in media arts and design. And my big project that I’ve done is Tiger-T Zine, and it’s this Asian and Mental Health collective zine. And I was really stealth and very isolated in my trans identity. And it was maybe the start where I was like, “I really want to see and test the waters of being more involved in a community for trans people.” It’s been kind of hard as a trans guy finding a space that caters, or is safe. So I began looking in Google. I typed up Trans Mentorship. And really, Trans Mentor Project popped up. And so I remember being like, “Oh man. I’m past the age range of 13 and 24.” And so I was like, “You know what, I’ll just try and shoot an email and see. I could be a mentor or mentee.” And luckily enough Carter, our program director was like, “Okay. You’re good. You can get in there. It’s fine.” And since then, I’ve helped out with the youth participatory research program that we have. Well, we bring in mentees to shape our program. We ask them what we need, how we can improve. And since then, it started with a zine and then now I’m an intern here.

SHAUNA: I love that. How big is it? How many people? How many mentors do you have? Do you know?

KYLE: The last time I looked, I don’t know the split necessarily between mentors and mentees. Okay. We have 120 active pairs. And I think in the registration it was 490-something when I last checked.

SHAUNA: That is awesome. That’s awesome you found it on Google. That’s impressive. Google’s good for some stuff. OK, Max, tell us about you.

MAX: Sure. I should say I’m mostly a theater professional. So in my working life I am a theater artist. But I also do a lot of work with organizing and activism within queer spaces in New York City. So I believe I came initially from – I frequently work with PFLAG NYC. And most of what I do is travel into schools around the city across the different boroughs and talk to classrooms, talk to students about my identity as a gay trans man. I answer questions that students have and try to dispel myths about transness. So that’s a lot of the work that I do with PFLAG. And I come to that work from 10 years as an educator. And so I believe PFLAG directed me to the Massachusetts Trans Political Coalition which started a program called the Trans Leadership Academy in, I believe, 2023. And I was part of that initial program. So that was a mentorship program. I had a mentee that I worked with remotely through that program. It was based in Massachusetts. And sadly, that program sunsetted due to loss of funding. So they directed me to TMP as an alternative group that would sort of be a similar opportunity. So I started mentoring about two years ago and have loved it and been involved ever since.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Have you had the same mentee the whole time? How often do you get new mentees?

MAX: I have had two mentees so far. So I had one mentee my first year and fairly recently connected with another mentee. So at the year mark, folks have an opportunity to either continue their existing mentor relationship or move on. So I made that decision at a year with my previous mentee and I’m connected with my new mentee a couple of months ago. It’s been great.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Okay, talk about TMP’s approach to mentoring if you don’t mind, both of you. I’d love to hear what the model is of how the mentoring program works so that our folks can have a better idea and understanding. Kyle, do you want to start?

KYLE: Sure. So our mentorship is structured and we have it ongoing for at least a year. So it’s not just like a short-term thing. We try to make sure that mentees, and the pairs, have a chance to get to know each other, to build rapport, to build that deeper relationship with each other. But one big thing that TMP stands out by doing is that we focus on the strengths of youth. So positive youth development as a theory, we focus on the fact that trans and nonbinary people, the challenges that we face, it’s not like we’re the problem. It’s actually the things that we face that cause problems and challenges. And so we make sure to empower young people to feel like we have agency to build their self-esteem, to build confidence, to shape and frame trans identity as something positive, and to make sure that we empower them to have hope and agency in shaping the lives that they want to live. And so it’s this kind of model where you focus on making sure that we want to affirm trans people to make sure that you know there’s nothing wrong with you. You can live the way you are and that’s fine. It’s really how the world and systemically how that impacts the challenges we face.

SHAUNA: Yeah. I love that. I just did an interview with somebody about resilience. And I was thinking about that in this context, how you guys, having lived the trans experience, can then model resilience and joy and all of those things you were just talking about to your mentees so that they can see. Because, as we all know, it’s really heavy right now for trans people in this country. And finding joy and finding resilience is such an important part of surviving that. That’s awesome. Max?

MAX: Yeah. I can share a little bit about the format if that’s useful. So in practice, the mentorships are – so depending on if you are a minor or not – your first session might have a parent or guardian involved. So that first virtual session where you’re meeting with your mentor and getting to know them, your parent or guardian is expected to be on the call if you’re under 18. If you’re over 18, then you can just sort of jump right in and get to know your mentor privately one-on-one. And then from that point on, mentors and mentees – if they decide that they liked their initial meeting and want to continue getting to know each other – then can set a regular time, regular date during the week. And that’s totally up to the mentor and mentee to decide on together. So it’s completely flexible in terms of frequency of meeting. I’ve had some – I’ve had a mentee where we’ve met maybe once every month or two months. And now I’ve had my current mentee, we meet I’d say every week. So the frequency can change depending on your personal needs and your schedule. But for minors, the parents get to be involved in that first session. And I share that because, I think one of the most impactful things about the program for me has actually been getting to interact directly with parents and guardians. I think what’s really special about that is that for a lot of parents and guardians – as you were sort of getting at earlier – a lot of parents and guardians of trans kids don’t know trans folks personally or maybe don’t have any trans adults in their life. And so I think what’s really nice about the opportunities to connect with parents and guardians directly is that you’re giving them a model of trans adulthood and trans futures. And I think that can be really relieving for a lot of parents and guardians. I feel like I’m giving them the opportunity to see there’s safety and joy available to their kids or their loved one. And it’s a necessary counterpoint to a lot of the fatalistic headlines that we see about trans kids and trans teachers. I think, for a lot of parents and family members and guardians of trans kids, their assumption is that coming out as trans is a death sentence and that I meant their life is over. And I think it’s really important for parents and guardians and family members to see, actually there are huge spots of thriving and happy and successful trans adults who are living their best lives after coming out. So I think that element of it where we get to be connected to the loved ones of trans folks is really special because sometimes I feel like I’m giving them a dose of hope that maybe they’re not otherwise getting.

SHAUNA: Yeah. That makes sense. Do you get a lot of resistance from parents? I think about that. I’m guessing that the parents who are willing to show up with their kids to this program are the ones who are relatively supportive of their child’s trans identity. But is that something that you mentor with kids about, about parents who are maybe struggling to understand their child’s identity?

KYLE: One thing that is a challenge is the need for caregiver consent in our program. I think it sucks, right, because most of the youth who don’t have supportive parents are the ones who really need something like TMP. We do have some caregiver groups and resources for caregivers. But I think it’s taking that initiative for parents to be open to it. But that is one limitation. It's a matter of having at least one caregiver who is supportive. Especially for minors, it’s still kind of capped at that.

SHAUNA: Right. I think that that is a common problem for trans youth is finding a supportive adult who will support them through their journey. It’s all online, is that right? The mentor project is all online? Can you tell me more about that?

KYLE: Sure. I mean the biggest positive to having a virtual online space is TMP was designed to overcome barriers to care and isolation. So we make sure that TMP is accessible to anybody. So it can be any geographic location, from rural areas, urban, suburban, anywhere. There are a lot of LGBT and trans organizations, maybe in certain parts of the country but maybe not in others. And there are people with barriers to transportation, disability and chronic illness. And we wanted to make sure TMP would be accessible to those people. But I also wanted to speak to the power of mentorship and that relationship. What Max was talking about, giving that dose to people. I mean, I started as a mentee and really I was looking for proof that it was possible to live a fulfilling life as a trans person. And I think the biggest perk with TMP is we really focus on making sure the mentee has the power and agency to choose what kind of mentor they want. So we have these bios where mentors share their identities, maybe their first-gen, or they’re college grads, or they’re not college grads, or they’re immigrants, or they’re neurodivergent, or they have experience with hormones. So they have the agency to pick. Do they want to talk about career? Do they want to focus on transition? So it's really kind of encompassing all life areas.

SHAUNA: That’s super exciting, I think, because a lot of times, trying to find the specific needs can be challenging. And so I love that you have them listed so that they can go like, “This is what I’m looking for. This is what would be helpful for me.” That’s awesome. It’s just the United States, is that correct or is it worldwide?

KYLE: Yes, it’s the US.

SHAUNA: US. Okay. Mama Dragons is mostly US too. We do have some groups outside of the US so I just wanted to clarify that. Okay, safety of participation, I know that that is something that a lot of parents worry about just in general, safety of their kids online, especially safety of their trans kids. Tell me about the safety of participating in TMP, please.

MAX: Yeah. I would love to start by saying that I think a real concern for trans folks online right now is this idea of cyber security and data privacy. It’s fair to be concerned about how your data is being shared and used online right now on wider social networks, places like Facebook and Instagram. These are platforms that are often unsafe for minors particularly, and freely sharing information with corporations. So something that’s really great about TMP is that it offers its own social platform. So it is formatted, I would say, in a way that's visually similar to the Facebook interface. You’ve got a sort of home feed where anybody in our program, mentor or mentee, can post and share about upcoming events, opportunities, writing submissions, job opportunities, what’s going on in their lives. There’s a main feed and then all mentors and mentees have their own profile where they can share, like Kyle was saying, various identities that they have. They can share interests. They can talk about what they’re looking for in a mentor/mentee relationship. And none of this data is shared publicly. So it’s an entirely sort of internal, non-public platform with, again, over 35 discussion and interest groups and affinity groups. So those range from Queer Trans BIPOC folks. There’s a whole group for BIPOC individuals in the program. There’s a group for trans joy, sharing wins and success that folks have. There’s a group that’s specifically an anonymous Q&A, where folks can ask questions that they have and get them answered by other folks in the group. So all of this is totally exclusive to other folks in the program. None of this data and information that folks are sharing is accessible to corporations or being sold to advertisers.

SHAUNA: I love that. Mama Dragons recently moved from the Facebook platform to our own private platform as well for the same reasons of safety and data sharing. So I appreciate that. It seems like also there are some pretty strong training and background checks for mentors? Okay. What about matching mentor and mentee, is just the mentee picks the mentor? How does that work? Kyle, do you want to talk about the matching because you were a mentee, right?

KYLE: Sure. So it’s pretty full circle. Starting as a mentee, we meet with our program director and we kind of share what we’re looking for, what our needs are. And we’re given a set of bios from mentors that we can potentially be best matches. And, you know, it’s really based on what you’re looking for. And that’s really the power of that because we really want our mentees to set the tone for the relationship and pick the kind of mentor they want to have. And, on the rare occasion that it’s not a great match, there’s always the opportunity to switch out and figure out what a better match would be. And it’s pretty cool because starting as a mentee, now I’m an intern, but I helped out kind of revising our bio guidelines to share like, “What would be helpful? Are you someone who uses humor? Are you more solution oriented? Do you give more validation?” You know, that’s kind of – rather than just a lot of shared interests, but also communication styles and the approach in the relationship can really matter to young people as well. So that’s part of that.

SHAUNA: That’s fantastic.

MAX: I also, I would love to just uplift again how great it is the TMP gives folks the opportunity to match with another trans person on the basis of shared interests and affinities as opposed to just simply the fact of being trans. I think, oftentimes, when folks come out that’s the way these things go is they sort of maybe get pushed together with the closest trans person in their proximity, especially for folks in more rural areas who maybe have less queer community access. So I think that’s something that’s really special about this particular platform is that you’re getting the chance to pick somebody who is the right fit for you in other ways beyond just also being trans. For instance, a young, black trans girl is going to have a very different experience than an adult, white, trans man for instance. Like those two people might not have a lot in common. And so TMP gives the chance to match with somebody who maybe shares more of your experiences or is able to speak to some of the things that you’ve personally gone through in a way that’s more targeted and specific than just sort of over being trans.

SHAUNA: It recognizes the total humanity of people, right? You are more than just one part of yourself. And I think that that’s fantastic that you make an effort to connect people on multiple levels with others that can be helpful. Okay, training the mentors receive, can you tell me more about that?

MAX: Yeah. I guess I’ll speak to that as the mentor in the room.

SHAUNA: You’ve been doing this for a minute.

MAX: Yeah. So again, just to echo what was said earlier, training is very thorough. All mentors are vetted and screened and go through references before being brought on board. So part of the training involves you go through your modeling interactions that might occur with a mentee and your navigating appropriate boundaries with a mentee. So there’s a set of guidelines that mentors follow about – for instance, we are not in touch outside of the platform. Communications are contained within the platform. You are not a licensed mental health provider. We make no illusions about being trained therapists or psychiatrists. We are meant to be social supports, we are not necessarily qualified to give medical advice or emergency services. So we’re very clear on what the parameters of the mentor/mentee relationships are and what they are not. And so for me, a lot of what I do as an educator translates to mentorship. But some of what I do in mentorship is unique to that relationship. For instance, if the mentee wants to ask about my experience with transition or my experience pursuing healthcare, then that’s something that I might speak to in a session. Or, if the mentee has questions about navigating relationships or friendships, they’re more personal topics than I might cover as an educator in a classroom setting that are suited to a space like a mentor program.

SHAUNA: That makes sense. Okay, I would love to hear, Max, about your work in schools. That’s with PFLAG, right, that you’re doing work in schools?

MAX: Yes. Yeah.

SHAUNA: And these are public schools and they just let PFLAG in?

MAX: Yes.

SHAUNA: That’s amazing to me as someone in a super conservative state.

MAX: Yeah. So it’s actually for listeners at home, actually you’re not getting the visual experience of me sitting in a teachers lounge as we speak after having just concluded one of these volunteer shifts. So I’m at the scene right now. So basically what I often do with PFLAG, the majority of my volunteering with PFLAG, is with their Safe Schools Program which invites both representatives from PFLAG NYC, from their staff, and volunteers to come into New York City public school classrooms and talk to students about queer and trans events. So usually the structure is we start with defining LGBTQIA, we start by defining these terms. We answer questions about the differences between sexuality and gender. And then we get into personal story telling, so we’ll share a little bit about our own coming out stories or our own ally stories. PFLAG is a largely ally-based organization that focuses a lot on non-queer allyship and forging bonds within families. So after we share personal stories, we’ll sometimes take questions from students and/or teachers and try to dispel some anti-queer, anti-trans talking points or disinformation that’s propagating in the headlines. So that’s the work I do with Safe Schools. And I love it. I highly recommend, I think there’s probably a lot of listeners to this podcast who would benefit from PFLAG if they are not already. So I would encourage folks who are listening to get involved with your local PFLAG chapter. There’s lots of support for families and friends of queer folks at different PFLAG chapters.

SHAUNA: I would for sure second PFLAG as a resource even – I live in a conservative state – and PFLAG is amazing here to connect us with other families who need also support. So look up your local PFLAG chapter, please. That is amazing work. I love that you’re able to do that and that the schools are open to that and that you’re doing that. That’s such important work. So thank you for doing that. Kyle, first I want to hear about your experience as a mentee, what it meant to you, anything you’re willing to share about your personal experiences being a mentee in TMP.

KYLE: Sure. Yeah. When I first started my mentee journey with TMP, I had actually – it was, I think, the first year I was there or started I had just met another trans man in person for the first time. I joined a camp and that’s how like, I want to be more involved in community and what I was really looking for was another trans guy who was that model for a future that was fulfilling, some kind of future that you don’t have to split yourself up because kind of juggling a split life of being stealth in one area of my life and then being kind of out selectively and juggling relationships. It’s a lot. And so I wanted to see a trans adult, further ahead, whether that’s their career or creative pursuits, and how they were navigating all of that. And it’s been so rewarding to see that it is possible to have a life where you don’t have to split yourself up to have a good life. So that’s a big thing. And I think more than that, I think what Max was talking about, going back to the youth-positive development theory, it’s that transness is so heavy. And I think a lot of the time, even in the media, all the things we see, it’s like trauma related and the sad things that we hear. And I think matching with someone who has shared interests and just vibing, just hanging out and talking about fun stuff, talking about our cats, rather than – it doesn’t always have to be heavy. And I think that’s what I love. Sometimes you just want to connect with another trans person who gets it beyond the hard stuff in life and more about just life in general, being human. And that’s the best thing. And I love that TMP has that where we have the agency to start conversations and pick the topics we want to talk about. Mentors never bring up sensitive topics. Mentees always have the choice to decide, “Oh, I want to talk about this.” And even mentors can share, “Oh, I’m not comfortable about that,” setting boundaries, being clear in the relationship like what you’re willing to talk about and what you’re not willing to talk about. So it’s been very rewarding and I just feel so supported and empowered because sometimes a lot of things get you down. And I think having someone in your corner who really sees you and believes in you sometimes before you can see that for yourself, it’s been totally empowering and has led me to being an intern with TMP.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Kyle, I’m also super interested to hear more about the zines. Will you talk about that?

KYLE: Sure. So we do three every year for Trans Day of Visibility in March, and then Pride for June, and then Trans Day of Remembrance for November. And anyone who participates, whether they submit any kind of medium actually, we made it work. Sometimes people send videos in, I do a QR code. They can do poetry, stories that they write, collages, paintings, drawings, comics, anything. And I’ve had experience doing zines before and so it was really awesome to have that opportunity to work with TMP and to shape that. And trans youth and trans young people in our program, we have different themes every time. And so our last one was, “Hope in the Midst of Despair” for Trans Day of Visibility last year. And then for Pride we had "Cultivating Pride” and it was kind of growth themed, so it’s kind of garden, roots blossoming, and things like that. So we have different themes and I try to be creative. And our last one was “Threads of Time.” And so it’s kind of honoring the past, but looking towards the future for Trans Day of Remembrance, beyond grief, beyond the sad things about Trans Day of Remembrance, it’s also honoring our ancestors and trans-cestors. So, yeah. We try to be creative and shape that. And we send out submissions. Anyone can submit and we put it all together.

SHAUNA: Yeah. I was going to ask, anyone can submit art?

KYLE: Yeah.

SHAUNA: That’s so fun.

KYLE: And even after, beyond our trans community and TMP, we make sure last names are omitted for safety, privacy reasons. We still honor that throughout all our stuff. And so after we share our zine theme for that time, we share it with our community and then outside of our community. So we’ve had people, I think we’ve had a trans person from London to share. And we do outreach and we share it and so anyone really who wants to be part of the zine, it is truly a trans community zine.

SHAUNA: That’s so cool. Would they find the information about that on the website or just by joining TMP? What’s the best way to get connected with the zines?

KYLE: It would be best to join TMP, I would say. But we also have an Instagram that we share the theme for the month, or the three times that we do it. So that’s probably our best bet.

SHAUNA: That’s awesome. That is so cool. Okay, Max, I would love to hear your personal experience with being a mentor in TMP.

MAX: Yeah. I love that Kyle mentioned that oftentimes mentorship looks like just talking about people’s cats or what they’re friends are up to. We’re often not talking about trans stuff in sessions necessarily. I mean, it’s certainly not a prerequisite. We don’t have to talk about anything trans related with your mentor/mentee. My first mentee, for instance, I think most of what we talked about were media-verse. We talked about a lot of YouTube channels that my mentee was into and traded recommendations to video essays and talked about video games. Rarely did we talk about anything trans related. But when it did come up, it was nice that we had that sort of foundation that was built on non-trans sort of shared interests. With my current mentee, it’s fun because I’m working with somebody, I’m meeting with someone now who is in a different phase of life than my first mentee and is also, funny enough, an artist. And so we get to talk a lot about art and sort of brainstorm together and riff off each other’s artistic pitches. And I always check in with my mentee to ask if they’ve got new projects that they’re working on, if they have a work-in-progress that they’d be willing to share. And I get really excited to see where we’re at with the different pieces that they’re working on. So I think my feeling when it comes to working with young people right now is it’s got to be so hard to be a kid in the world right now. And not just a trans kid, but any kid. The world is really scary and intense and unpredictable. And so I think it’s really wonderful to get to be a sort of anchor to a young person at this particular moment in time. I feel like, if nothing else, I’m just a familiar face that they get to see on the regular and maybe that gives them a little bit of consistency that helps them get through their day-to-day. So that’s my general ethos.

SHAUNA: That’s awesome. Kyle, what would you say to people, trans folks, who haven’t connected with TMP yet, but are kind of interested but maybe a little nervous about it? What would be your advice for them?

KYLE: Well, firstly, I’ve been there. It’s totally normal. I think to join community and to be part of a community, it’s a very reciprocal relationship and I think it’s okay to be nervous, especially when sometimes relationships involve being vulnerable and sharing yourself with someone else and it involves trying to trust someone, getting to know them, and taking that risk to see if you’re going to vibe with this person, if not. But I think it’s so worth it. It’s so worth it when you put yourself out there and you meet someone who really supports you, where you feel seen and empowered. And it’s not a relationship you can just find anywhere. It’s so hard to find. I’m based in a place that’s very – I’m in an urban place where there’s a lot of resources. But even then, it’s hard to find another trans guy who gets it, who might humor me in my Pokemon endeavors, games and art and all these things. Like Max was saying, we want someone else to see us as human first and then also have that safety of knowing that no matter what, my trans identity doesn’t impact that. They don’t seem me less or different or they don’t care about me less. It’s not conditional on us being trans. And so I think it is scary, but the best thing is you can put yourself out there. You can try. And just remember that if you don’t like it, and if it doesn’t work out, you can always try again. You can change your mind. And I think, for me, that’s been a good reminder because sometimes when you make a decision, you feel like I’ve got to stick through, I’m stuck, I’m trapped. But really, just reminding yourself that you have agency. And even TMP really focuses on that, making sure that you have the choice. You can decide what you want to share, what you don’t want to share, what the relationship ends up being like. If you want it to be all about just art, it can be that. You want it to be about your potential career, heavier things, or trans specific things, it’s your choice. And so that’s kind of my advice.

MAX: On the topic of agency, I just wanted to share something I haven’t mentioned yet that is also really beautiful about this program. I was tabling at a Pride event for TMP last night. Somebody came up who is a trans adult who said, “I’m interested in being involved in the program, but I don’t know if I’m qualified to mentor.” And I think that’s not an uncommon sentiment. I don’t necessarily feel qualified to mentor either and I’ve been mentoring for two years. I think what’s really lovely about a program like this is that for a lot of folks it helps to maybe affirm your ability to be a support to someone else. And you don’t have to have a background in education or child care to be that person. I think all of us are capable of being that person. I think it’s nice with TMP to be a mentor because it sort of gives you the sense that you’re capable of something that maybe you didn’t think you were. So I think that’s something that folks can get out of it is, maybe you’re somebody who is a trans adult, you want to help out in some way, but you don’t feel like you have what it takes to be a mentor or you don’t feel like you know enough, or have the right background. And I just want to say, there’s no “right,” necessarily. Mentorship can look like a lot of different things and a mentor can look like a lot of different things. And for adults who are interested in helping and providing support to trans youth, really the only prequalification is being willing to show up and be there.

SHAUNA: Yeah. That’s what I was going to ask. So the qualification is just a desire to show up and be a support. Is that right?

MAX: Yes. And of course, mentors are trained and get background checks. And we are required to submit applications and answer questions and go through all of the things that you might go through with a job interview. But mentors don’t have to be from a particular professional background or have worked with certain communities in the past. There’s no requirement that you come from a background of already having mentored with a different program. So those aren’t the sort of prequalifications that TMP is looking for. The main prequalification, being interested, being willing to show up, applying, caring about trans youth, wanting to help raise the next generation of trans youth into trans adults. That’s really what TMP is for.

SHAUNA: It makes me emotional. I love that. Thank you. Okay, are there any other things that we haven’t touched on about TMP that either of you want to talk about as our time is quickly coming to a close?

KYLE: One exciting thing is, while I was from a mentee role and then stepping in to intern, I’m actually starting to mentor someone this week. So that’s super exciting. It feels like full circle. And also one thing, I guess, for anyone nervous is that, don’t be afraid to share what is bothering you and what you need. We’re all here to support you and TMP is really good about making sure that you get what you need from the mentorship relationship. And applications are always open. So sign up.

SHAUNA: That is great to know. I hope you get a big influx of people signing up after this podcast. Max?

MAX: I was going to share, there are lots of community engagement opportunities. So, again, beyond that one-on-one relationship that you have with your mentor/mentee there are always events happening virtually on the platform. So you can tune into our regular coffee hours, which are sort of accountability hours where you can come in and work on homework or fold laundry or whatever and just be in the same virtual space as other folks. There are movie nights where we’ll virtually stream films together and talk and chat to each other about them. I have hosted a couple of events. I love that TMP is really open to programming by program members. So something that I did last year, and also the year prior, is screen a recording of a show that I worked on which is specifically an all trans show that I produce. And so I wanted to share it with the TMP Community. It felt like the right audience. And that’s something that TMP has been really supportive of. If you’ve got a pitch for an event or program that you think the community might benefit from, TMP is open and willing to host it. Same with panels, or webinars or discussion forums. Those are all one-off events, special events that can happen through the TMP platform so that I think it will excite you.

SHAUNA: That is exciting. I think that all sounds super interesting. Okay, anything else before I ask you my final two questions?

KYLE: One more thing. So we are hosting our first event – well, we’re doing a lot of events – but our first event in the west coast. So if you want to learn more, I’ll share a little bit about it. It’s a pretty casual drop in and the idea is “Things that Stuck with Us.” And it’s a community show and share. So rather than it being a workshop or something really educational, we wanted it to be more community-oriented for people to get the chance to connect over something they love and something that means something to them. So we’re inviting trans and nonbinary people to come by, share a zine, share a book, drop a song in our collective playlist, share art that they care about and we will kind of browse through it. And people have the opportunity to join and be part of our Trans Day of Visibility Zine for March. And so, if people are interested in that we can share more details. They can email tmp@samdevorah.org. And Sam Devorah is S-A-M-D-E-V-O-R-A-H. So, it will be exciting!

SHAUNA: And we’ll put that in our show notes too, if you didn’t write that down. Thank you. That’s really cool. So fun. Okay, our final two questions we ask everybody and it’s some of my favorite questions. So Mama Dragons, the name “Mama Dragons” came out of a fierceness for our queer kids, like you know mama bears, and then you’ve got to breathe fire for your kids. So we’re fierce about protecting our queer kids. What are you fierce about? Kyle, do you want to go first?

KYLE: Sure. Sure. You know what’s funny, actually, I love your name because I love dragons. And I started a dragon club in middle school, so I’m a little partial to the name.

SHAUNA: Love it.

KYLE: But, yeah. But more symbolically, I love that question you have. And what I’m fierce about is truth and dignity, especially the right to have intersectional identity, to have complexity without having to justify or explain yourself. I think the biggest thing I’m all about is pushing back against narratives that ask people, especially trans young people, to flatten themselves, to simplify who they are and to hide themselves to just be accepted by people. And I think truth and dignity is about care that’s real, not just performative or symbolic or just having good intentions, but really systems and relationships that actually respond to people’s needs, just like TMP. And that’s why I’m here. And that’s why I work for them. And I love our mission because we really do something that works and we’ve seen it change people's lives. And young people feel empowered.

SHAUNA: Love it. Max, what are you fierce about?

MAX: That was just a gorgeous answer.

SHAUNA: Wasn’t it?

MAX: I would say collectivism is my guiding light. I really believe, and especially right now, in shared justice. And I think it’s crucial that trans people show up for immigration justice and for protections for black and brown folks, and for safety for disabled folks and inclusion for disabled folks. I think all of those things are essential to each other, essential building blocks for collective liberation. Especially living in the US, I find that I constantly have to sort of reground myself in the possibilities of collective solidarity. And that’s a more global, I think, perspective on how we move through the world and how we get things done. And it’s something that the ways we operate in the US and the systems that have in place are constantly pushing us away from. So I really strongly believe in collective action, solidarity, unionizing, finding ways toward each other even in the scary moments when maybe there are some fists that pull apart. We have to let the scary things push us closer together and bring us into love and care rather than fear and isolation.

SHAUNA: Those were both such good answers. I love both of them. Thank you. Our final question is, what is bringing you joy right now? We know everything is heavy. We love us some trans joy. So what is bringing you joy right now, Kyle?

KYLE: Yep. That’s a great question. For me, it’s being involved in communities such as Trans Mentor Project. Another community I’m part of is Pane and Brain. It’s like an art, mental health community, an Asian men’s mental health group. But on a real level, I love my two cats and just eating good food and spending time with my partner. So finding time for just down time beyond all of the things going on in the world. But even that, I think being part of this podcast and knowing that there are moms and parents and families out there who really are fierce about their trans and nonbinary young people and their kids, that brings me joy too.

SHAUNA: Thank you. Max?

MAX: I’ll give a slightly unserious answer, which is sometimes in the midst of global political backsliding and anti-queer sentiment in politics, you have a beautiful bright spot in which a gay Canadian hockey show is somehow mainstream culture. And I think that is beautiful. I, like many a gay person, have been enjoying Heated Rivalry. And shout out to Harrison Browne who is the first out, trans professional hockey player featured in that show.

KYLE: Oh, that’s cool.

MAX: So, I’ll say my unserious answer is the gay hockey show. [indiscernible]

SHAUNA: I love it so much. We take joy where we can find it and that is a place of joy. That’s so great. I want to thank you both again for taking time out of your busy lives to come and tell us more about TMP. I’m super excited about it. I hope a lot of our moms share it with their trans kids and that we send a bunch of more mentees/mentors your way. So thank you so much for being here. We appreciate you.

KYLE: Thank you for having us. It was so nice to meet you and be part of this.

MAX: Yeah, Thank you. This was a blast.

SARA: Thank you so much for joining us here In the Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons offers an eLearning program called Parachute? This is an interactive learning platform where you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at Mamadragons.org/parachute. Or find the link in the episode show notes under links.

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