The Trans Equity Project

One of the joys of being Mama Dragons is getting to become fierce advocates for our LGBTQ+ children. For many of us that means learning from movement leaders, the torch bearers who rise up each generation to move the needle forward. Most often these are ordinary people with extraordinary courage who stand in the gap between reality and a future where everybody can flourish and say, “This isn’t good enough,” and then dedicate their lives to closing that gap. Today In the Den, guest host Shannon sits down with just such a movement leader. Corinne Goodwin is the founder and Executive Director of the Eastern PA Trans Equity Project, which helps transgender people across 42 counties of Pennsylvania change their legal names and receive emergency assistance, and offers peer support groups for trans people and the people who love them.  

Special Guest: Corinne Goodwin

Corinne Goodwin (she/they) is the founder and Executive Director of Eastern PA Trans Equity Project a non-profit organization which has a mission of empowering transgender individuals throughout a 42-County area of Eastern and Central Pennsylvania.  An award-winning community leader and in-demand speaker, Corinne actively works on issues impacting the lives of LGBTQ Pennsylvanians. Corinne is a member of the Pennsylvania Governor’s Commission on LGBTQ Affairs and was a founding board member of Keystone Equality.  As the leader of the Trans Equity Project, she works to advance LGBTQ+ rights in coalition with organizations that include the Human Rights Campaign, Pennsylvania Commission for Fairness & Justice, the ACLU, the Education Law Center, the Pennsylvania Youth Congress and more. Recently retired, Corinne served as a senior executive in the retail and telecommunications sectors, after which she operated her own business consultancy firm for fifteen years. A parent to one son who works in New York’s theater industry, she lives in Orefield PA with her wife Debbie, a grumpy cat named April, and a model railroad that takes up way too much space in her basement. 

Links from the Show:

• Eastern PA Trans Equity Project
• PA Trans Equity on FB
• PA Trans Equity on IG
• Join Mama Dragons today

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Transcript

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons, a podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here. 

SHANNON: Hello and welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons, this is Shannon Manan. My pronouns are she/her. I'm filling in for Sara and really, really looking forward to today's episode. One of the joys of being a Mama Dragon is getting to become a fierce advocate for our LGBTQ children. For many of us, that means learning from movement leaders, the torch bearers who rise up each generation to move the needle forward. Most often, these are regular people with extraordinary courage who stand in the gap between reality and a future where everyone can flourish and say, “This isn't good enough.” And then dedicate their lives to closing that gap. The deeper I get into this work, the more grateful and humbled I am for everyone who sacrificed to make possible their freedoms and protection that transgender people have today, even now, when those rights are under threat. During these times when it's easy to despair, I find myself seeking out LGBTQ community leaders, the unflappable ones who’ve been at it for decades, spearheading grassroots organizations with steady hands. The ones who know how much we've overcome and how far we have yet to go. That's why today I am so excited to have one of those steadfast, very, very special leaders here In the Den with us. When Corinne Goodwin’s son was born, she made a decision that would take her another two decades to fully live out, to be her true self, out loud. Today she's the founder and executive director of the Eastern Pennsylvania Trans Equity Project, which helps transgender people across 42 countries [counties] in Pennsylvania change their legal names, access emergency assistance, and connect with peer support groups for trans people and the people who love them. Corrine is also a founding board member of Keystone Equality, Pennsylvania’s statewide LGBTQ Coalition. She sits on the Pennsylvania Governor's Commission LGBTQ Affairs and has helped pass nondiscrimination ordinances. But before all of this, they spent two decades as a corporate executive in retail and telecommunications, then ran their own consulting business for 15 years. Corrine is also a parent. Her son works in New York's theater industry. And she lives with her wife, Debbie, and famously grumpy cat named April in Pennsylvania. So please welcome Into the Den, Corrine Goodwin. Welcome, Corrine. 

CORINNE: Hi. How are you? Thanks for having me. 

SHANNON: So, so thrilled you're with us. Thank you. 

CORINNE: It's almost like I wrote that description of me. 

SHANNON: Almost, almost. Hopefully we’ll talk about your cat. You have such a powerful coming out story, Corrine. And you said before that the moment that your now-wife Debbie found out that she was pregnant with your son was the same moment you came out to her. I was wondering if you could talk about what that was like for you and in what way did that impact the family you created going forward? 

CORINNE: Yeah, so probably not the best time to come out to your spouse. But I think that what my thought process was in my head at that point is that here we were on the cusp of this really big life-changing thing – and I'll just preface this that we have the most amazing kid on the planet. And I have the most amazing wife on the planet. I would not be who I am or where I am today if it wasn't for both of them – But at the time, I was a little bit in crisis, I guess emotionally, mentally, a little bit. You know, I know who I was, by the time I was three or four years old. I didn't have language to describe it, certainly. And growing up as a queer kid in the 60s and the 70s, highly closeted and there was no real language for this, certainly, for youth. And when I went to college, met my wife, and started my career, went totally back in the closet and really was at a point where I knew I needed to break out at least a little bit. And so I made my confession on that same day. And I guess my thinking was like, if this is going to happen then I need to be as honest and forthright as I can be with my spouse. And it was challenging. We spent the next 25 years of our marriage, I guess, kind of in the space where it was a “don't ask, don't tell.” So my wife might go visit her mom for a weekend and take our kid with her. And then I would have my ‘girl time’ so to speak for a day or two. And then she'd come home and she’d say, “Well I was your weekend, honey?” And she'd go, “Great” and she'd go, “How was your weekend, honey?” And I go, “Great.” And then there really wasn’t a whole lot more conversation that we had about it. But that's sort of the way it was for a long time. That’s how I coped and how we sort of dealt with it. And then once we got to a place in life where our kid was out of the house and doing well, and I had established this business and we were doing well. And my wife had established a second career and she was doing well, it finally felt like I was in a safe enough space where we could take the next steps. 

SHANNON: Yeah, I wonder, I think I understand that you've described your years, building your career as an executive, you’ve talked about that being a time almost a double life, a hidden life. What did keeping those two selves separate that long teach you? And I imagine it informs your work today. And if so, how? 

CORINNE: So the common term for leading these double lives is “code switching.” And what I did was a lot of code switching. And I also did a lot of – not sure what the best way to describe it is – but over indexing on my masculinity at work, right? Literally my nickname in business was Dr. Evil. And I had a reputation for being, what I would think was a very fair person to work for, but also a very challenging person to work for. And I was not afraid to take action against people that I thought weren't doing the work. And I really kind of became this Type A business executive. I had, frankly, a reputation for making people cry. And again, I like to think with some justification, but I was an assertive manager, I’ll put it that way. And that really was because I was trying my absolute best to make sure that people wouldn't ever have a suspicion of who I really was, right? And what I've learned, I guess, over the intervening period, is that that code switching – right? Switching between this hyper-masculine business person versus who I really was – takes an amazing amount of energy. And I am such a better human being now. Number one, I don't make people cry, right? Which is an important disclaimer. But I spent, I would say 20% of my brain power, 25% of my brain power, just trying to hide all the time. And I could have been so much more effective if I had been able to put all of my energy behind being genuine and becoming an even better businessperson, a better entrepreneur, and now a better nonprofit leader. 

SHANNON: And I imagine it must give you an incredible amount of compassion for people who also have chosen to code switch and to try to live both lines. 

CORINNE: Yeah, it's just emotionally and physically draining, right? And so we run over 20 monthly community support groups for trans folks and their family members. And this is one of the things that we really see and hear about a lot from folks, especially who are really just starting to handle their journey, or maybe they feel that they can't come out for whatever reasons. Just like I felt like I couldn't come out for a number of years. And they talk regularly about the amount of energy that they waste, the emotional drain, I guess that happens from that. And that can obviously turn into depression and other mental health challenges. So I think that that experience has created a feeling of empathy on my part because I get it, right? And that empathy is what can be draining about this work, but it's also the thing that helps you get through because it's part of the mission. 

SHANNON: Yeah. For sure. When you actually, my understanding is that when you left the corporate world and started your own consulting business was when you made the choice to come out, fully, to your friends and family and even your clients. Can you talk about that period in your life and that process and how that shaped you? 

CORINNE: So the first thing I think that people need to know about coming out is that it isn't like ripping off a band-aid. It's not an all at once thing. Just because this is how my brain is wired, I literally created a spreadsheet related to how, so I had my list of people that I needed to have my face-to-face conversations with, right? So my family members, my close family members, my kid, my best friends, my business clients, people like that. Then I had the list of people that got like a greeting card – they actually make coming-out greeting cards, believe it or not – or a letter, old-fashioned snail mail letter, or an email. And then you kind of had the list of people, well, they’ll figure it out on social media. Not sure I care one way or another, I guess, in the sense. But that process for me took, oh gosh, three to five years, depending on how you look at it. So first it was my spouse and then it was my kid and then it was my in-laws. And my wife has six sisters, so that took a whole bunch of time, right? And they live all over the country. But we felt like we wanted to do that as much as possible face to face. And then on the business side, I have clients all over the world. So I need to have, I wasn't going to fly to Jamaica for my client in the Caribbean just to come out, right? I had to have a business reason to go there and for other business clients as well. So it actually took time. And one of the things that for a lot of folks, the challenge is that when I come out to you, for example, and then I say, “But you can't tell anybody.” Right? Is that places a real burden on the individual that you just came out to. Listen, people talk and people make mistakes. And you might tell, I might come out to you and you might tell somebody that you think you can trust with that secret and then somehow it gets out. And so you have to be prepared for what that process can look like, good bad and ugly, right? And sometimes, like I had two social media lives, so I had my Corrine social media. I had my social media for my other and had to be really careful that those two worlds didn't meet. I know somebody who, she came out. Actually she friended a friend of her male self on social media. And then everybody on Facebook got suggestions for their friends. And that's how they ended up coming out. They came out to everybody by mistake. And so when we have our community groups, these are some of the things we talk about, so what is the process? You know, think about how you're going to navigate those things. 

SHANNON: With all of the diverse groups – and the spreadsheet is amazing. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of a coming out spreadsheet – But generally, how was the reception for you and how did that go, that piece of it? 

CORINNE: Yeah, so, I think the thing when people ask me about coming out I’ll say, “You will be surprised, right?” So I had people who I thought for sure were going to have a real problem with it and they have been wonderful. And then I also had people that I thought were going to be wonderful and they have cut me out of their lives. But I will say that – and maybe this is just that I did a pretty good job of picking who my friends were over my life – but most of my friends have been great, right? Varying degrees of great and comfort, but it's worked out relatively well. I really have one close friend who has broken off all contact. Not only a friend but somebody who I hired twice and worked with and mentored over the years. But that sort of is what it is, right? And when you come out, this is part of the process is that you know you’re going to lose somebody, but you're also going to gain a lot of other benefits, right? So you gain the fact that you no longer have to spend all that energy code switching, right? You gain the fact that you can be more productive because you're your genuine self. I certainly have gained a lot more empathy, right? In many ways it was like feeling empathy for the first time because I no longer had to be Dr. Evil, right? My other nickname in business was Hurricane. So I would come in and blow stuff up and then leave, right? So I'm not the hurricane anymore. So that's a really good thing. So there's been a lot of really good, amazingly good things that have come out of it, including founding the Trans Equity Project and doing the work we do, which has been amazingly rewarding. 

SHANNON: You're so far the opposite of the hurricane now with the Trans Equity Project. 

CORINNE: I don't know, the people who work for me now may differ, beg to differ a little bit. I'm really trying to be a better human. 

SHANNON: We’re talking to them next. Can you talk about what was the seed that grew into the Trans Equity Project? Was there one moment that catalyzed you to create it or was it over time that you felt called? Can you describe how it was founded? 

CORINNE: Yeah, so back when I was still closeted but the way that you found community often was like through ads in the back of magazines that were sold in adult bookstores, frankly. Right? And it would be like “Transgender group this” or “Transgender group that” and things like that. And one of the groups that was founded in the 1980s was a group called Renaissance Transgender Association. It was started by a wonderful woman down in the Philadelphia area. Unfortunately, she's now passed on. But it grew into sort of a national – primarily East Coast – but national organization with affiliates around the country. And the way that you would meet these groups of folks, these support groups essentially was you would answer the ad in the back of the magazine. You got a post office box, so nobody would know, you weren’t getting the mail at home, right? And then you would connect with people. And then you would usually have a phone interview, like at a phone booth – like an old fashioned phone booth like, “Be at the phone booth at 7th and Main at 7pm on the 15th, that phone's going to ring.” And then they would interview you and vet you and then let you into the group and tell you when and where they kind of met and got together. Well, I subscribed to the newsletter from Renaissance and then when we moved to the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania – so that's the Allentown Pennsylvania area – I knew there had been an affiliate in the Lehigh Valley, and I managed to get their address. They had a PO box. And I sent the postcard and never heard back. And then I did it again, and I never heard back. And I did it again, and I never heard back. And I started going to see a therapist and she knew the person who knew the person who knew the person to get in, right? It was sort of like this double-secret code to get in. It took literally four years of trying to get to this support group, for various reasons. I got there. This would’ve been like in 2012, or something. And walked into my first meeting, it's three, four older trans women. When I say older, like in their 60s, 70s. And I was in my late 40s, at that point in time. I go like, “Wow, I'm not sure this is for me.” And then one of them proceeded to give me a lecture on the right way to be trans. And I go like, “I'm just trying to figure my stuff out here, right? You know?” But luckily one of the women that was there came over and just put her arm around me and said, “Hi. My name is Amanda. And this is kind of what happens. And whatever it is.” And I kind of hung out. I went back for a second meeting in a third meeting and got to know some of the folks. And then I'm sitting there, we’re sitting in the circle, people are talking about all the problems of being trans, all the challenges that they have. And I'm just sitting there going like, “Well, how do we make it better? How do we make it better?” And so we started with launching a website so that you no longer had to know somebody, who knew somebody who knew somebody to get in. And attendance started going from a half a dozen people to up to 50 would come to group meetings. And then we started going like, “Well, what else could we do?” And we started paying for, we would collect -- we'd ask, we still do, we ask for a $5 donation if you can, to help cover our costs for these meetings – And we’d go like, “Well, we could pay for somebody to go to the Keystone Gender Diversity Conference.” So it's a conference happens every spring in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. It's 800 to a thousand transgender folks all show up. We take over a hotel. And you go to workshops and you drink too much at the bar and there's karaoke and all that. And it's actually the first time I ever went to the Keystone Conference. It was like it was the first time I kind of really said to myself, “I can do this.” Right? And there's community and I was no longer the tallest woman in the room, which is kind of cool. So we paid for a couple of folks to go to that. And then I'm kind of going like, “Well, we probably ought to have insurance.” And so we connected with the local LGBTQ Center and worked with them to become a sponsored organization of them. And so we got to take advantage of their insurance. They got a program. That lasted a couple of years. And then, really me and a couple of folks like, “We can really just blow this thing out.” And then so I built a business plan and a funding plan and the power point. I went into my strategic business person mode, built the whole business plan, went out met with other folks and built a board. And then we separated from this other organization and started really just doing the one community group that was the original one doing legal name change help in three counties in Pennsylvania. And in the last seven years we've expanded from a budget of $5,000 to a budget of about $350,000 and from serving three counties to serving 42 counties and not just having one support group but having 20. And we serve about 6 to 8,000 people a year currently with our programming.

SHANNON: What strikes me about what you've built is just how holistic and comprehensive the support is, the resources. It's truly a one-stop shop for so many things. It seems like you just keep expanding, keep expanding, keep expanding. From you’ve got this whole education arm, a story-telling project, and then all the resources that you shared. Can you talk about what that feels like and how that changes people? When trans people come and get that kind of wrap around support, why does that matter? 

CORINNE: Yeah, so our programming really falls into four categories, or four swim lanes. So the first one being supportive services. So that is our community group. So 20 plus community groups, they meet about 28 times a month. Some of them meet weekly, others meet twice a month, some meet monthly. We also have an info line that gets about a thousand calls, 1200 calls a year for people just looking for a referral to a doctor or a therapist or they're having a problem at work and they're just looking for information on how to handle things. So we have that supportive services side. We have our empowerment programs piece, which is legal name change help, educational scholarships – so this year we just gave out $27,000 in scholarships for people to go to continue their education. We have a nascent workforce development program as well. Then we have our education piece, which is education programs for trans folks. So we have a program called Trans Topics, which is monthly or quarterly – depending on the where we’re at – monthly quarterly programs that are recorded on our YouTube channel on everything from how to change your name, to how to find a therapist, to everything you want to do know about boobs, but were afraid to ask, right? We've got about 40 videos archived right now on our YouTube channel for that, for example. But we also educate a lot of cisgender folks. I work with a lot of the medical schools in Pennsylvania on just how to provide affirming care to folks. And then we have our advocacy side, which is doing work to try to pass legislation and policies in workplaces and things like that, that will affirm trans folks. So that's kind of all the stuff that we do. And to your point, the purpose is really to surround a trans person with all the resources that they may require, right? And so for example, they might come to us for that support group, right? And they're getting emotional support. They're getting access to resources. Information on how to navigate coming out, or how to navigate the healthcare system, or whatever it is. The hotline does that, too. But then, you look at the empowerment programs that are about helping people get good jobs and self-sustain. Our basic needs help program, which is food, rent, electricity, clothing. Those are really about, “Listen, if you can't go to school, you can't go to work and be productive if you don't ever move over your head, food in your belly and electricity to charge your devices, that's the way it is.” And so, we want to plug those holes for people, give them the services they need to move beyond that state of striving, and moving to a place of thriving. That's the mission, striving and thriving. 

SHANNON: I noticed that in the wake of the assault on gender affirming care, you’ve really put a lot of resources and support into supporting transgender youth and their families. I was wondering, because our audience is so much that audience, parents and loved ones of transgender youth, can you help us understand, with your very unique lens, you've got a really incredibly broad view in Pennsylvania, which of course is a battleground date, purple state, that I feel like a lot of those lessons and learning can be extrapolated nationally, kind of a social and political and other forces impacting this landscape right now. What do you feel like families of trans youth should know that we might not? And related to that, where are you really concerned? And where are you seeing hope? 

CORINNE: So I have the benefit of being old. So I know I look like I'm 35, but I'm really 66. So I am old and wizened , right? And the benefit of that is that I know what it was like growing up as the queer kid in the 70s and the 60s. Being a closeted trans person in the 80s and the 90s and the HIV epidemic and Stonewall and all the other things that kind of helped propel the movement and create the movement. So I guess that sort of has built-in some resiliency and some wisdom maybe in terms of saying like we have been in these places before. In fact we have been in worse places than we are now. A good friend of mine, one of our board members, she came out in 1969, found like the only doctor in the entire state of Pennsylvania that would provide any type of transforming care, right? One doctor, we have hundreds now in the state of Pennsylvania that provide this care. The story she tells of what it was like coming out back then when it was illegal for her to walk out on the street because the laws said that you had to be wearing at least three articles of clothing of the gender that you were assigned at birth. We are not there yet. Yet. Right? And so there's a lot of things for folks to learn from our elders who have been there. If you're a younger person, like if you're under the age 25 and all you saw in the first, from 2005 through 2000 and you know, really 18 or so, you saw progress. Right? And things were getting better and Laverne Cox was on the cover of Time Magazine. And National Geographic had a whole issue devoted to transgender issues and they called it the transgender tipping point. And all you saw was it getting better. And now this feels like the world is crashing in. So I think that it's really important to understand, for younger folks as well as for the folks that are supporting them, is it A: we have been there before and we have come out the other side right. And we come out the other side stronger and better. We will do that again, right? We've always been here. We're going to continue to be here. They need to understand that there are lots and lots of organizations, community groups, organizers and advocates – us being just one of them – that are doing the work every day to try to stop the negative actions that are happening currently, certainly at the federal level and at many states across the country. And we're really, really good at what we do. So in Pennsylvania, as an example, currently there are 19 pieces of anti-trans legislation that have been introduced in the Pennsylvania State Legislature. Last session there were about 20 bills introduced. The session before that, there were about a dozen bills introduced. The session before that there were about 10 bills introduced. Not a single one of them has moved. Not a single piece of anti-transgender legislation has moved in the state of Pennsylvania because we are really, really, really good at killing this stuff. Really good at killing this stuff, right? And it's not just me. I mean, it's lots of other organizers working all across the state. And on top of that, and it's important to say in a purple state, like Pennsylvania is the perfect really is the prototypical purple state. We also at the state level, we have 41 pieces of positive legislation that are sitting in a waiting passage in the Pennsylvania State Legislature. Unfortunately none of those have moved either, right, because we have a democratic state legislature or a state house. We have a Republican State Senate. We have a Democratic Governor and the state Senate is not moving any of the bills. So the Pennsylvania Fairness Act is an example of a piece of legislation that would enshrine rights of LGBTQ people under law. That has been passed the last three sessions in Harrisburg. It is not moved on the Senate side. So we have really, while we're trying to stop all the bad stuff from happening in Harrisburg, and we're having conversations with legislators all the time – we just met with a bunch of them about two weeks ago – we're also working locally. And so in Pennsylvania, we have almost 90 counties and municipalities that have passed local non-discrimination protections. And that's more than any other state in the country, by the way. So what those local laws do is they provide the backstop for our community members across the Commonwealth here. And currently, while there are 2,500 municipalities in the state of Pennsylvania, those 90 or so that have been passed, that covers almost 50% of the state's population. So we're just, we're really trying hard to make good things happen whenever we can, I think is the message. 

SHANNON: Yeah, you talk a lot about the coalition, that not doing this alone and have spent a lot of your work, building and strengthening this coalition. Notably in December 2024 in preparation for the rollback to transgender protections that you knew was coming, your colleagues all knew was coming as Trump took office, you co-wrote this incredible op-ed in the Philadelphia Enquirer with the Welcome Project PA, which is an immigrant rights group for folks that don't know, and PA Youth Congress, which is an LGBTQ organization. And the piece argued that the antidote to the panic was education and community. And then you use the op-ed as kind of an announcement or an invitation to town hall meetings. And the coalition, and tell me if I got this incorrect, but correct me if I'm missing the detail on that, but then you launched the series of nine State of LGBTQ Town Halls. And together, you all were able to turn this wave of panic into this very structured, civic education and organizing effort. And what strikes me so much is that you knew right away because of your years and what you talked about. These years of advocacy, seeing how this goes, all the lived experience and wisdom you have from the dark time, even darker times. You knew that the antidote to panic and hopelessness and fear, was taking action in community and solidarity with other vulnerable groups, and then developed forums to turn the anger and fear into engagement. So could you talk a little bit about all of that? What did you learn from that series of community meetings? And I know you're talking to people all this time. But what was different about that? What impact or outcome have you seen come out of any of that? And what surprised you, finally, about what people needed in those rooms?

CORINNE: Well, that's a whole lot right there. 

SHANNON: Oh yeah. 

CORINNE: So let's back up just a little bit. 

SHANNON: Okay. 

CORINNE: It's important to know that, you mentioned us in The Welcome Project and The Pennsylvania Youth Congress. There's lots of, in Pennsylvania there are over 50 LGBTQ-led organizations. And we all try to work together in coalition when it makes sense for us. But there's also at the national level, there's, you know, Lambda Legal and GLAAD Law and Human Rights Campaign and ACLU, and a lot of other organizations working. And all of us were smart enough to kind of realize that the landscape was going to change come that January of 2025. And so we all geared up. So I think it was Lambda Legal that said this, but when they went into the first Trump term, they had eight lawyers working for them. When they went into the second Trump term, they had 80. Right? And it may not be Lambda Legal, maybe somebody else would know – working on my 66-year-old memory here – But all of us said, ”Oh, we know it's coming. So we’ve got to gear up.” One of the things that we did in the state to your point is that we actually held over 30 town halls all across the state. And we just called them the Know Your Rights program. So it was us, Pennsylvania Youth Congress, Human Rights Campaign at the time and other local organizations that we did this road show right after the election, so in December as well as in January and even into February a little bit of this last year. They were one-hour presentations talking about, this is what has been happening, this is what we anticipate is going to be happening, and these are your rights. This is the next step. This is how you activate. The goal was to A: sort of tamp down the sense of panic and communal trauma, and then to hopefully activate people to action in one former another, right? So whether that was electoral organizing, or mutual aid programs, or give us money, right, so we can do the work, right? I mean all those things, right? And we talked to all, a lot about what advocacy looks like. And when I talk about advocacy, when I do trainings on this, I often draw a graph, right? And so the – I think it's the X axis, which is the up and down one, right? – The vertical axis, right? I just call it the upy-downy axis. But that one, we write at the bottom, “Are you in?” and at the top, “Are you out?” Are you in the closet or out of the closet? And by the way that can be situational and you can be in the closet or out of the closet as an ally as well. Then across the bottom axis we write, “Do you want to do something easy or do you want to do something ambitious?” And then we do an exercise where we plot all the things that people could do. So if you are in the closet and want to do something easy, just vote. It's two hours a year, right? The spring election and a fall election, it's two hours out of your life. Secret ballot, no one needs to know that you’re an Equality voter, right? You want to do something a little bit more ambitious, it could be charitable donations. Or it could be joining a bowling league and letting people see how wonderful or how bad a transgender bowler is, right, and make friends. I have a wonderful friend and this is literally what she did. She lives in a very red part of the state. She joined a bowling league. She has turned these other 30 something women into equality voters just through the sheer force of her personality. Right? At the other end of this spectrum obviously is everything from writing letters to the editor, to door knocking, and campaigning, to running for offices. There’s literally a thousand things you can plot on that graph. and so we talked about what are the things that you are capable of doing and what maybe could be the next thing if you just turn the dial a little bit. And we have continued these actions. So the LGBTQ Coalition of Pennsylvania, LGBTQ Organizations here in the state right now, we're doing, we call it our Unified Action for Pride Season where we're trying to get 5,000 people to email all the leadership and in Harrisburg in the state capital to take action to protect access to queer health care. So that's HIV care and sex education and transgender affirming healthcare and reproductive healthcare and all that kind of universe, a shield law to protect our healthcare providers. And so we're going around and making speeches at Pride events and walking around with postcards and QR codes. And we've already written email for them. And they just got to sign on, takes 30 seconds. And that's the goal, right? It's to make sure that our politicians know that we are watching, right? And the one thing that an elected official fears most is not getting reelected. And so we want to let them know that we're watching and that we vote. And that's really how we ended those seminars. If you said LGBTQ people are 10% the voting public and 25%, almost, of people under the age of 25 identify as queer and if we just organize, we will be a force to be reckoned with electorally. We’ve just got to get our stuff together. 

SHANNON: I love how you were so holistic in terms of putting all of those different pieces together to really create a big-tent action with all those different aspects of healthcare. And it seems like that would be a really smart way to create strength in numbers. 

CORINNE: Yeah. And then I will also say that we then, we collect those email addresses and we will be emailing them right before the election to say, “Hey, are you registered? And do you have your plan to vote?” We did a program last time called Trans-Portation, get it, Trans-Portation to the polls. Right? Where we just had volunteers say, like, “Hey, listen, if you're a trans person, maybe you're afraid to go to the polls, we will go with you. So we will pick you up at your house. We will drive you to the polling place. We'll walk in with you as moral support and help you vote.” 

SHANNON: It just feels like this is just how we win, creating these coalitions, building that. I want to ask about doing these – and again, this could have my timing incorrect – But I think just a few years after founding the Trans Equity Project, you also became one of the founding board members of Keystone Equality, which was the Pennsylvania State LGBTQ Coalition. That you say you're doing this direct support in your local community, kind of boots on the ground. And then really keeping your eye on the longer-term advocacy and organizing and coalition building to do that sustained change. I wanted to ask you about that because I feel like there's sometimes this like false binary that we might put up for ourselves where we tend towards one kind of work or another, assuming we have to choose between direct support or long-term advocacy. When, of course, they're so complimentary and they work in tandem with each other. Is that ever conflicting for you? Was there ever tension in that work? What do you learn as you kind of weave back and forth between those two that might be instructive for people to know about as they wrestle with where to spend their limited energy and engagement? 

CORINNE: Sure. So let me start off and just disclaim, so I was a founding board member of Keystone Equality. I'm no longer a board member at Keystone Equality. So I was a board member for the first two years. And Keystone Equality and The Trans Equity Project were different types of organizations. So The Trans Equity Project is a 501c3. So we are a public charity. So we are allowed, for example, to talk about issues, but we are not allowed to endorse candidates. We’re not allowed to give contributions to candidates. We're not allowed to say you should vote for Republicans, or Democrats, or Libertarians, or whatever. But we talk about issues all the time. So we try to educate people about what's going on and the impacts. And we certainly encourage people to get out and vote. Keystone Equality, on the other hand, is a 501c4, which is a political action organization. And they are specifically set up to tell people how they recommend they should vote, as an example. So they can do candidate endorsements, and they have. And so they would for every state legislative race they said, you should vote for this one, or you should vote for that one or things like that, your recommended candidates that type of thing. So for me personally, I have to always be careful of which hat I'm wearing, right? And while I am no longer directly affiliated with Keystone Equality, we work closely with them on certain things. So for example, we recently passed non-discrimination ordinance in – actually, let me back up – in the State of Pennsylvania in the last year and a half, we have passed comprehensive non-discrimination ordinances – some of the most progressive non-discrimination ordinances in the country, actually, in four counties and three other municipalities across the state. Most recently is Northampton county in Pennsylvania and Luzerne County in Pennsylvania combined – they cover about 650,000 Pennsylvania's with these protections. And they're not just about LGBTQ folks. It is about immigration status and about if you are a veteran, you can't be discriminated against that. Believe it or not, federal law, state law, in Pennsylvania does not protect veterans from discrimination, nor domestic violence victims, nor people who use service dogs as an example. So these laws protect very wide classifications of folks, people who are neurodivergent or on the spectrum and other things like that. Not just in employment or housing or the terms “public accommodation”, which is like restaurants and car dealers, but also in healthcare and in education. So the broader, the other thing a lot of people don’t realize is that federal discrimination laws as they exist, number one, they're not being enforced by the Trump administration. Number two, they only work on employment for employers with 20 or more employees. Fifty-six percent of all companies in this country have fewer than 20 employees which means that you can't submit the federal complaint of discrimination if you work fora  small business. So these laws actually work for anybody. They work for gig workers, so DoorDash and things like that. So we're really, really proud of these laws. So we work alongside of Keystone Equality, for example, on these last two that were passed. We were a carpooling together all the time and meeting with legislators. I talked about the issues and what the law said or didn't say, and my compatriot from Keystone Equality said this is how you should vote. We were careful to walk the line. 

SHANNON: That's really helpful to know. And for what about, for your average person who isn't heading an organization like you are? What have you learned in terms of all these can support each other and what is helpful about maybe doing both? 

CORINNE: Yeah, so I think that as I talked to – I think I mentioned earlier that we're going to 37 Pride events this summer, right – And we're talking to thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And we're talking to folks just saying like, “Listen, Just getting involved. Do as much as you can, but it doesn't have to be a lot,” right? So it can be just making sure that you're voting. It can be donating $5, whether it's to us or it's Trans Uniting in Pittsburgh or the William Way Center in Philadelphia or the LGBTQ Center in Harrisburg. But donate $1, $5, whatever it is. That can make the difference between us being able to feed somebody or not feed somebody in some cases. Understanding that volunteering matters. So when we go to these pride festivals and we're doing that outreach and I go up on stage and I make my speech about, “Hey we needed to scan this QR code.” That means that our booth is unattended and somebody isn't learning about our name change program, as an example. So we need that volunteer to come in and handle the booth while I'm out there doing the dog and pony show, right? So volunteering, donating your time, your money, mutual aid is really important. So whether it's a formal nonprofit program like what we run or just becoming part of a mutual aid network that works through social media and they say that Shannon is hungry needs help with food or they need help with the car repair so they can go to work or whatever it is, all these things are really important. And the other thing I'll just say is that when you volunteer, right, when you donate, your mental health gets better. So we're seeing a lot of folks right now that are in varying degrees of trauma, right, because on their phones, doom scrolling, perpetually looking at all the horrible news and things like that. And it's so easy to get into these mental and emotional ruts. Getting out and doing something and moving makes a huge difference for your mental health. 

SHANNON: Yeah. Moving that anger through your body and the fear and taking action, such good advice. 

CORINNE: Like they say, “Touch Grass.” 

SHANNON: Touch grass. I wanted to, as we kind of start winding down, Corinne, there’s so much you said, I was struck by, I'll have to go back and I wrote down something that you said that was so beautiful. How do we make it better? How do we make it better? That's a galvanizing question from all those years ago that you've lived out across the span of your years of activism and organizing. I wanted to talk a little bit from your self-described wife and to see at doing this for years and years and years which I've loved and it's true. And exactly what I was referring to in my introduction. You look at the tremendous impact The Trans Equity Project has had and that everything that you've touched has had. And you've touched on a lot of those incredible accomplishments. And really the bottom line is transgender people across the significant portion of Pennsylvania are better resourced and better supported. And that's it. And as tempting as I know that is to chalk that up to your leadership as a remarkable leader, I know that's not the story you like to tell. Can you help us understand maybe just what it looks like and feels like to be in to be in this with the long game? What can you share for those of us that are newer to the movement? What ingredients have been really critical for success?

CORINNE: So I think that it is really important to understand the impact of small victories. So I was thinking just the other day because I know a young trans woman, who we helped them, oh gosh, five years ago or so maybe, with a legal name change. Right? And what does a legal name change let you do? It lets you get your, for a young person, get your chosen name on your high school or college diploma. It means that you don't have to out yourself when you apply for a job. Right? So imagine being a trans guy and you've got the beard and you're losing your hair and maybe you've got a little bit of a beer belly now and whatever it is, right? And you walk in and you have to write down that your name is Darlene. Right? Now you're immediately outed as a trans person, right? So we helped this young woman get her legal name change done. We subsequently have helped her with an educational scholarship. She is a beautician by trade, right? So she was able to get that job because she didn't have to out herself – and plus she’s just drop-dead gorgeous and we all hate her for that – She's an amazing smart young woman. And now we have helped her pay to go to barber school because she wants to provide free haircuts for trans men. Right? So, us investing in this young woman is allowing her the opportunity to pay it forward. And you never know when you're going to get that aha moment, right, whether it's the name change, the scholarship, or helping people with their interview skills for a job, or when I go to speak to medical students, right? We just talk about like when you introduce yourself, you always introduce yourself, you say “Hi, my name is Corinne. My pronouns are she and her.” And you put your hand on your heart and then you just hold your hand out. And what you’ve just done is you’ve shown that trans person that you're an ally, right? And so “Hi my name is Corinne. My pronouns are she and her. And you are?” You hold out your hand. I've just given you a gift and I've opened up my body language to help you come out to me and feel safe, right? And almost 50% of trans people delay going to the doctor because they're afraid of having to come out, right? And so if we can teach somebody how to make it easier for that trans person to go to the ER or whatever it is, then that makes a difference for somebody. And that's the real thing for me is like just if we can make that difference in somebody's life then they can then pay it forward, then it’s all worthwhile. 

SHANNON: Thank you so much. So, final question that we often like to ask guests at the end of every episode: what is bringing you joy right now, recognizing that in these times particularly, we need to cultivate as much joy as possible? 

CORINNE: Well, that's complicated. So, we are in the middle, actually, of a transition here at the Trans Equity project. I've been doing this work now for the better part of 20 years in one form or another and founded this organization formally seven, eight years ago. And there's such a thing in business called Founders Syndrome, right? Which means that I know all of my ideas are perfectly formed and no one should disagree with those, right? When that's in fact not the case. And with all humility I have an amazing team and they push back on me all the time and I'm really appreciative of it. But it's probably time for me to move on and do something a little bit different. And so we are actually in the process of building our succession plan to bring in some new leadership, hopefully. And they will take The Trans Equity Project to the next level. And then I will semi-retire. So my wife retired last year and is loving it. I have never ever worked less than six days a week and 60 hours a week. I'm not sure I can retire but I can work less. And so the intention is that I will probably shift more towards advocacy work, allow The Trans Equity Project to really focus on the supportive services programming. We will still work in coalition and work together. But I like building stuff. So I'm going to build a new thing. And that brings me joy. And in the meanwhile, I'll get to spend more time with my wife. And I'll get to see my kid a little bit more and be able to go into the city and see some of the shows he's working on a little bit more frequently. And I will fight with our hateful cat April. 

SHANNON: I'm glad we made it back around to April. 

CORINNE: So we are April's third owners. And it took two years for April to even come out from underneath our bed. But now she adores my wife. But she is a one-woman cat. And you know, when I walk in the room, she just walks out and gives me the kitty finger and tells me where I can be. 

SHANNON: April needed her own coming out journey too. So, she's a diva. 

CORINNE: Yeah. Yeah. 

SHANNON: Corinne, Thank you so much. This has been such a delight and such a treat. I'm so grateful for your time and everything you shared. 

CORINNE: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, it's an honor. 

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