The Stonewall Inn Gives Back

When we think about Pride, there’s a good chance our minds go to one particular place: the Stonewall Inn in New York City. In the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, a police raid at that little Greenwich Village bar sparked a rebellion that lasted for days—and that moment is widely remembered as a catalyst for the modern LGBTQ+ liberation movement. Today, the Stonewall Inn continues to be a flashpoint for our movement. As a National Monument and New York State Historic Site, its history—and whose stories get remembered and honored there—have taken on new urgency as the fight for transgender rights and visibility has escalated under this administration. It is still a gathering place, a symbol, and a reminder of just how much our community has fought for—and how much there is still to fight for. Today In the Den, Sara talks with Stacy Lentz, CEO and co-founder of the Stonewall Gives Back Initiative, an organization that takes the history, visibility, and cultural power of the Stonewall name and puts it to work supporting LGBTQ+ people and communities today. They’ll discuss the history we remember, the history we sometimes get wrong, and what it means to take that legacy of resistance and turn it into action and giving back.

Special Guest: Stacy Lentz

Stacy is a nationally recognized LGBTQ+ Advocate, marketing expert, and CEO of the Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative. She is also the first and only lesbian co-owner of the historic The Stonewall Inn, widely known as the birthplace of the modern LGBTQ+ rights movement. For over two decades, Stacy has helped guide one of the most iconic institutions in the world. A trusted national media voice, she has shaped global Pride campaigns, mobilized major brands, and transformed cultural flashpoints into moments of visibility, accountability, and action. A compelling speaker and strategic advisor, she brings a powerful perspective at the intersection of legacy, leadership, and impact.

Links from the Show:

• The Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative
• Donate to the Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative
• Join Mama Dragons today

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Transcript

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SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons, a podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here. 

Hello, Mama Dragons. When we think about pride, there's probably a good chance our minds go to one particular place, The Stonewall Inn in New York City. In the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, a police raid at that Greenwich Village bar sparked a rebellion that lasted for days. And that moment is widely remembered as a catalyst for the modern LGBTQ+ liberation movement. And today, the Stonewall Inn continues to be a flashpoint for our movement. As a national monument, and New York State historic site, its history and whose story is get remembered and honored there have taken on new urgency, really, as the fight for trans-rights and visibility has escalated under this administration. And the Inn is still a gathering place. It's a symbol and a reminder of just how much our community has fought for, how much there is still to fight for. So today we're talking with someone who has made it her mission to carry that legacy forward. Joining us In the Den is Stacy Lentz, the CEO and co-founder of the Stonewall Gives Back initiative. This is an organization that takes the history, visibility, and cultural power of the Stonewall name and puts it to work directly in the community supporting LGBTQ+ people, projects, initiatives, and communities around the country. Stacy has been part of the Stonewall Inn for decades and has a beautiful perspective on what that place means, not just as a historic landmark but as this living reading part of our history and community. So, Stacy, welcome in the den. We're so glad you're here. 

STACY: I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate getting to have a conversation with you all. 

SARA: Likewise, because this initiative is just, it's a beautiful expression of all that the Stonewall Inn represents, and I think probably getting a little bit hidden in the controversy today. So I want to start with you. How did you first come to be connected to the Stonewall Inn? What has that place meant to you personally? 

STACY: Yeah, so the interesting enough, I grew up in a very, very small, Christian conservative town in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas. 

SARA: Wow. 

STACY: Yeah, in the 70s and 80s, when there was really no LGBTQ representation, anywhere, not even on TV, media. There was no Rosie. there was no Ellen. there was no anyone at that point growing up in that time period, and growing up certainly in a place where it wasn't accepted at all to be LGBTQ. So that was like a little bit of a difficult upbringing for me, understanding that I was different, knowing that from a very young age. But I think, really, it made me want to become an advocate and really speak up for people like me who had those difficult kind of upbringing and childhood being in a place where it just wasn't accepted and I could not be my authentic self and I certainly couldn't come out and love what I wanted to love at that time period. So after I graduated from Kansas State, I spent a couple years in DC knocking on doors in 1992 for the Clinton Gore Campaign – we’re going way back – and then I moved to the York City in 1994. I became a recruiter, an executive recruiter for many, many years, and was really kind of doing DEI before DEI existed, placing a lot of LGBTQ folks in jobs and also a lot of people of color and things of that nature, so executives firms, and staffing companies, and built an entire career around that. And then I spent a lot of time also when I wasn't working, my free time, I spent in piano bars. And I happened to stumble into the Duplex, which is right down the street from the Stonewall Inn in the late 90s. And that's where I met Kurt Kelly, Bill Morgan, and Tony DiCicco. Kurt was a manager there. We quickly became friends. And Bill and Tony owned the place together at that time period. And they kind of found out in 2006, that the Stonewall Inn was closing. It literally could’ve at that point become a Starbucks a nail salon, anything. So they got together a group of investors and asked me if I wanted to step in as they knew that I cared deeply and passionately about LGBTQ rights and that I would be somebody who would definitely be interested in that. So I immediately said yes. And here we are almost 12, well actually 20 years later. We’ve had the bar for 20 years. And my role has always been from the beginning, because I come out of a sales and marketing role, is really to be the brand architect, to make the bar more than a bar, to make sure that that legacy continues, to make sure that people understand that it's an institution, and really to put it back at the forefront of the LGBTQ rights movement where it belongs. 

SARA: I love this story. There are so many bits that I didn't know. And I'm thinking back to, over the years when there was a time when I think in the mainstream pride world, as it was getting really corporatized, we kind of forgot about the roots of pride at Stonewall. And that story is rising up again and getting retold and really anchoring pride in beautiful ways today. So I'm just so glad to hear that it can still exist in the way that it has. When you think about the story of the Stonewall Inn and the catalyst for LGBTQ+ liberation, is there any part of that story that you wish more people understood about what happened in that moment in the days and weeks and months to follow? 

STACY: I think the biggest thing, and it really does tie into what we're seeing today, Stonewall is the perfect example of when our entire community comes together, we win. When we get a united front and we stand up for each other and what we believe in, we can accomplish great things. Stonewall was that catalyst in that moment. And that spark happened because it was black, trans women. It was white gay men. It was butched, mixed-race lesbians. It was drag queens. It was everybody under the rainbow that really came together on that night in June 1969 to stand up and say, “We’ve had enough. It's our turn.” I think a lot of people don't understand that it truly was a collective. And we've also got to really talk about, we'll never know who started it. There's many rumors. Was it Marsha who threw a brick? Was it a drag queen who threw a heel? Was it a lesbian, some people think that was Stormy, who threw a punch. And to me I always say, I don't think it matters who started it. What matters is what happened and how we all as a collective came together. And then we've also got to look at a lot of people for years, really left out trans women for years of that movement and that they got to part of this and how it started. And again, whether Sylvia or Marsha were there the first night or not, they were instrumental in continuing those riots for days and making sure and holding the community accountable to not forget trans folks. And so I think we always say that we would not have pride without the trans representation and everything that trans folks did to make sure that that fight stayed alive at Stonewall. 

SARA: I love that. Thank you for that reminder. It's a really great segue because I want to talk about what it's like for all of you in the foundation and the initiative working with and for the Stonewall Inn that has part of its story. It has gone from being raided by police to be coming apart of American history in a national monument. But now we're in this flashpoint, this fight, again, in trying to protect the trans people that were part of that story and the federal government trying to erase that piece of history. Even as I was going to the national park government website, I just was saddening to see that there's just really no mention of transgender people in the brief little blurb on the website. What's it been like to be part of that, to be right in the middle of that from your position? 

STACY: Yeah, well, I want to explain to everyone who's listening out there the differences so everyone's clear. The Stonewall Inn, we are a business. We are in private entity. And we are privately held by the four of us. Bill, Kurt, me, Tony are the ones that own the bar and it is separate. We are not tied any way, shape, or form to the federal government. And never have been, just to make sure.

SARA: That’s great. Good. 

STACY: Yeah. So we did work with the Obama Administration in 2016 to make sure that the park, which is across the street, that whole surrounding area, became the first ever LGBTQ national monument, the Stonewall National Monument. And we were at the footprint of that. But we are our own business and have our own operating things of that nature. A lot of people, when they saw trans folks being erased from the website and then trans flags being taken down at Stonewall – even before the pride flag was taken down at Stonewall, we’ll get into that, I'm sure – Thought maybe that was us. I just want to reiterate to people the Stonewall Inn would never erase trans folks from our website. We would never take down trans flags. We would never do any such thing. A lot of people were confused about that in the beginning. So I just want to make that very clear. So for me personally, as somebody who has spent their life's work for the last 20 years protecting that bar and that legacy, I was gutted that trans folks were being left out of the story. You cannot erase people from history that were fundamental in creating that history. And that's exactly what this current administration has done. They really went in initially, and like you said, they took trans folks off the National Park website, did not reference them at all in any way, shape, or form, including when they talk about it being an LGBTQ monument, it's an LGB monument. Right? They took out the T and the Q. And then they tried to take out the bi.  I'll get into that too, but that was crazy. And then they insisted that all the trans flags in the park at the National Monument had to come down. So we were greatly alarmed. And because of the Stonewall Inn, and we have such a platform, we were some of the first people who run to the media about it and be like, “This is outrageous. We cannot let this happen. Let's have a real conversation and dialogue and point this out. And this has to stop.” We’ve always made sure that we included trans folks in that story because they are the biggest part of the reason why Pride exists. So we've got to continue to keep that legacy alive and have those conversations and keep fighting for them. Through the Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative, a lot of our work centers around creating safe spaces and then taking that money from businesses and corporations and giving it to grassroots activists all over the globe. I'm proud to say that about 90% of the grants that we've given out are to trans-led and POC organizations. That's the whole thing by design because we want to make sure that the folks that are in that community, out there fighting on the ground in places outside of New York – where you have geographic privilege in New York, I always like to say – and are keeping up that true Stonewall legacy to have the funding to do it. So we've always tried to make sure that trans folks were at the forefront of the movement and the forefront of everything that we do, in terms of trying to find and things that that example. 

SARA: That's wonderful. And I thank you for all that clarification. I think that's really helpful. And I'm sure none in our particular community would conflate the government's actions with the Inn. But I get that, in the chaos of all that has been unfolding with the anti-trans, anti-queer stuff that's happening in our country, it's easy to get lost in some of that. And you mentioned the pride flags. So before we dive into some of the initiatives that you all are doing and the specifics – because I want to hear some of those stories – but talk to us also, because I know many of us, myself included, live in states where we have experienced this very same thing in our state governments, banning pride flags from public institutions, classrooms, anything like that. I watched my own city council ceremoniously take down the pride flag on Trans Day of Visibility this year. And it was painful. So painful. So give us a little bit of that story. And it seems particularly gutting for it to be happening at this very intentional LGBTQ+ monument and site of history. 

STACY: Yeah. So last February, we found out that the National Parks Department – in the middle of the night, right? I always like say in the middle of the night – went into the park and took down the Pride Flag from the National Monument. One of our employees let us know the next day. And we were like, “What is going on?” You know, obviously reached out and we're told that the administration had signed an executive order that pride flags cannot be flown at National Parks. So this was the reasoning, right? But we know, again, this is just one more attack on our community. It's just one more way that this administration is trying to make sure that our community feels the wrath and doesn't seem equal in any way, shape, or form. So it's just another way for them to do that and for them to attack our community. To your point, particular gutting and alarming that you could come into the birthplace of pride, literally, and then take down the pride flag. We argued, vehemently, this is not just a symbol. But of course it's a symbol. It represents so many of us in the community. And it represents joy. It represents resistance. It represents fight. It represents all the colors that Gilbert Baker, when he made in the rainbow, intended which was spiritually, love, all these things, right? So in that context, it is super symbolic. But particularly with Stonewall, it's historically a fact, right? It's a historical artifact of what happened at that sacred place. And there was no reason, and when you look at that, for them to come and take something down. So they were literally trying to erase history from where the site of where history happened, quite frankly. So again, having the Stonewall Inn platform immediately ran to the New York Times and let them know, and released an article and really came out swinging – mainly in media and press – talking about how this is just alarming that they can come into the birthplace of pride and take down the pride flag. And what this means for our rights, what this means is as another level of attack on our community, what it reminds us of, and all those things to have that conversation and dialogue. So looking at what this administration did around that flag has us  even more confused and more alarmed than we've ever been, because it is emboldened to come into that place. It's emboldened. They feel very entitled that they can do these things. So to come into Stonewall and do that, it's just like, my God, they feel very entitled at this point to do these kind of things. So we then talk to a couple different nonprofits, including the Gilbert Baker Foundation, Lambda Legal, the New York City – I do believe – Preservation Society, then there's one other nonprofit. Oh, I think it's Equality New York who they all decided – we were asked to be part of the lawsuit – but they all decided to sue the Trump administration. As a private business and for eight million reasons and things we thought we'd leave it up to them and did not sign on as plaintiff. But we're there to support them in anyway we could. Again, mainly through our media contacts and being able to do that. And there was a settlement reached where they agreed to put the flag back up. But even before that lawsuit happened, the next day we went out and put the flag back up in the park. Right? So we did not let it stay down for long, with a lot of elected officials and community members. And we absolutely raised it back up. We're not going to allow that to happen no matter what. But it was good that a legal battle did occur, because now we don't have to worry about it, hopefully, coming down in the middle of the night again. But again, just another blatant attack. And there's been lots of attacks like you said, mainly on the trans community at the Monument at Stonewall, but also against our entire community. It reminds us of why we cannot trust governments because they change, and why we cannot trust the administration – and particularly this administration – with our stories, with our history, with our narrative. And we, as the LGBTQ community, need to steward that history. We just, unfortunately, can't turn it over to somebody else's to steward it. 

SARA: That's a beautiful reminder for all of us, all of us everywhere, to make sure that we are continuing to tell the stories of local history, of national history. And I definitely have felt that over the last few years as this administration has done all that it's done. I felt that pushed back in lots of different spaces to make sure that we're being clear and honoring those legacies and histories and all of the people that were part of that as we're celebrating pride. My community is gearing up for our Pride Month, which is September. We celebrate in September here. So I'm hearing a lot of that. It's very present in the water for us right now. 

STACY: And it’s another reason why, again, my business partners and I bought that bar. We wanted to protect the history. And we knew we could. And I think, like I said, that was super important to us, right, was making sure that it was just treated properly, that's not just as a bar, but as the sacred space that it is. And making sure that the younger generation would learn about the history of Stonewall. All those things is what inspired us to originally save it and keep it out of becoming a Starbucks or what else it might have become.  And then making sure, too, that we’re telling those stories. So it was great working with the Obama Administration to make it a national monument. But then here we are, right? So it's just a reminder, even the us, to be like, OK, we've got to make sure that our stories, our history is in our hands. 

SARA: Yeah, that's great. I'm so glad, too. I mean, I think, in this moment, to just even imagine a world without the Stonewall Inn and changed into the something else is scary.

STACY: Yeah.

SARA: So thank you. And as you're talking, I'm just curious. I can imagine it's become kind of a pilgrimage of sorts for the queer community, people who want to come and visit and pay homage and have that moment of saying, “I got to be in this place.” 

STACY: Yeah. I mean, I’ve personally been there when I watched people walk through the doors and just burst into tears. They're just so overwhelmed by the sense of history as soon as you walk in the doors and what it means, what it means to them. And I've also met so many people, when I'm traveling at Prides overseas, who will say, “Yes, I was at the bar just last year.” or “I was at Stonewall for a fundraiser in 2019” or whatever, right? So it's really cool to hear everyone's stories and it is a place, it certainly is a pilgrimage. We like to say it's the Mecca, it's the Gay Church. It’s where everybody comes to celebrate, where everyone comes to mourn, where everyone comes from joy, where we come together to resist all those things. So it's really cool to watch people come through those doors and just feel that and feel that history and live that history. Right? I think that's the really big part of it and hopefully get inspired to go out and make history of their own and keep that fight alive. Those incredible folks in 1969 stood up so we have these rights. I always say we're standing on the shoulders of giants. And so to see younger folks walk in and want to carry on that legacy hopefully after they see and have visited and felt that sense of history is really, really cool for us. 

SARA: Yeah, that is really cool. It makes me want to take a pilgrimage for sure. I feel the emotion as you're talking about it. So let's talk about the Stonewall Gives Back Initiative because that really is the brainchild, the force to keep this legacy, spreading out throughout the community. What was the idea behind creating it? 

STACY: Yeah, so after hosting thousands of events for every kind of LGBTQ nonprofit under the sun at the bar, because we really treat the bars almost like a community center, where the upstairs space and the upstairs bar area where the stage and everything is, we give away for free, for folks that want to do events and different things of that nature. Obviously we keep the percentage of the drink sales because we have to do that. But we normally donate that space. It could be for top surgery. It can be for someone who needs gender affirming care. It could be for a large LGBTQ nonprofit. It can be for an up and coming artist who wants to display their art. Or it could be for an amazing cabaret singer  who wants to launch a showcase. So we've done everything under the sun. We've literally let people use that space upstairs and have done that, including performances from Madonna, at New Year's Eve, or Taylor Swift, who came in and surprised everybody in Long Star’s Safe Space Certification Program with a performance up there. So, everybody under the sun has also been there as well. So, it's been a really cool experience for us to be able to give the community that donated space for whatever they need. So after doing all this other kind of fundraising and nonprofit events for other folks, in 2017 as we were heading into World Pride – which and Stonewall turned 50 in 2019 – preparing for that we had so many business and brands reaching out because they wanted to be a part of World Pride in 2019. They wanted to be part of the Stonewalls 50th anniversary. And so we're like, this is a great opportunity to work with these companies, work with these corporations and take that money and then give it back to grassroots organizations all over the world. So that's why we decided to start our own nonprofit. It was a great way for us to be like, okay, they’re literally coming to us at this point, let's figure out how to get that money back into the hands of our community and to the people that are really on the ground continuing the Stonewall Inn legacy. So we started the nonprofit in 2017. So we're more heading into 10 years and the emphasis, again, was really making sure that we would get funding from New York, San Francisco, LA, other places where, again, we have geographic privilege and give it to the spaces and places that it's very difficult to be LGBTQ in 2026. So almost all of our funding is really focused, like I said, on Trans-led or BIPOC led organizations in places where it's still definite to be LGBTQ. And all over the world – by the way, we funded Safe Spaces in Uganda. We funded folks in Kenya. We funded folks in Mexico. We funded folks in Italy because the Catholic Church has a very big hold over that and some of the anti-LGBTQ policies would surprise you, actually when you think about Italy. We funded places in South America in addition to, obviously, funding a lot of places in the Midwest and South here in the US that are struggling as well – So we really, like I said, using, for me it’s using my white privilege, my cis privilege and geographic privilege all together to get into room that a lot of people don't get into in 2026, they should get into. And then making sure that we can get that funding and get them into those rooms and give them the mic to talk about these issues. 

SARA: Can you share an organization or group or two that you have funded? 

STACY: So in Uganda, it's called SMUG. That's the name of the organization. And they've done incredible work. And when you think about it, Uganda is one of the places where they still have the death penalty. So when you think about that, what they face and what they do on a day-to-day basis, just to hide, right? So creating safe spaces for them is a whole different meaning. It is literally creating an underground place where people can communicate and have conversations and be who they are and [indiscernible] . So that's from one example. Other places we funded, places in Alabama, like we funded the TKO Society, which is a black, trans-led organization that really does specifically work in Alabama but all throughout the South. And it's still, the Southern U.S. is really tough to be trans, and it's really tough to be black. So we thought that was a great organization to fund. And that's just another example. In Italy, we helped build a LGBTQ Homeless Youth Shelter in Naples, working with the Archie Gay Society, because they just were not getting the funding that they needed. So we helped build an LGBTQ youth center there. So very brief examples. I could talk all day about it because there's so many that we've done. But we typically try to fund, like I said, it's mainly places where still difficult to be LGBTQ in 2026 and really focus on the most marginalized community members. So that's why we really do want to make sure it's typically someone addressing trans and non-binary issues and trans-led orgs and then BIPOC orgs. 

SARA: It's so interesting to hear you just talk about a few of those and really think about the connection and legacy of the Stonewall Inn as one of several, but original underground safe spaces, for the queer community before 1969. And wanting to fund those places and spaces out in the world in our country globally today day. And I know the idea of safe space and there's a whole Safe Space Initiative that I'm hoping you can share with us. But I was just like even thinking about Uganda. I was like, oh, it's like a little, a little Stonewall Inn there in Uganda. 

STACY: Yeah, in a place that hasn’t had that full on Stonewall moment of freedom, right? And I’ve  talked to activists there on the ground and for them, they're waiting for their Stonewall moment. Right? They're waiting for that June 28, 1969, in their country. So it's heartbreaking and gutting to hear their stories. And I would also say, because funding not just in difficult countries to be LGBTQ but funding, even here in the U.S. is being cut at such a level, that I wish that we had more funds to give to all the orgs that apply to us, because we get so many email so many incredible organizations and heartbreaking and inspiring stories that end up in my email box where I'm just overwhelmed because I want to help everyone, but we can't always. But it's a reminder of what community looks like all over the globe. And again movements take money. And I wish we had more to fund these incredible folks doing this work. 

SARA: Yeah. So talk a little bit about the Safe Space Initiative and what that look like. 

STACY: Yeah so because, to your point, the Stonewall Inn, even though it is mob-owned back in the day, the mafia ran it, and all these kind of things it was still our communities original safe space. It’s one of the few places that allowed same-sex dancing. It’s one of the few places that allow LGBTQ community members to gather. And that's kind of why it would get raided often right. And that's what led to the night of the riots because it was raided because the mafia would pay off the police because it was one of those places where it occurred where, back then there was a legal for LGBTQ folks to gather even in public space. So all those things, so it was our original space. So when we really started thinking about that, we started saying, “How can we create more space spaces and also how can we get brands, corporations, venues, places where we work, live, gather that say they're on the side of equality to really do the work.” Right? To not be performative, to not be rainbow washing, to not use our pink dollars, all those things, right? How can we hold them accountable and really showcase and highlight the ones that are staying with us, especially during times when like now, so many corporations, brands, their leaving us, right? So instead of just calling out and boycotting – which is fun, and I love doing that too –  why don’t we call in and  celebrate those that are staying on our side and create more of those, right? So we started out with the premise that we were going to figure out what our community thought makes a safe space and create criteria. So, again, it wasn't just me sitting here in New York with, again, white, cis and geographic privilege, or my team. We wanted to go out and talk to folks. So we did a national survey and we asked a bunch of questions around what makes the safe space to you? What do you want to see brands and corporations do better that say they're on the side of equality, around work, around DEI?  What makes you want to walk into a space?  What feels affirming? All the things and then we conducted focus groups throughout the country to really have that same conversation to make sure that we were getting it right and it was a true collaboration and collective of what our community wanted. So we were kind of thinking and we were like, “All right, so the most marginalized among us, let's talk to them first.” So we talk to again, black, trans folks in the South, ask those questions. What makes a safe space to you?  What do you want to see brands and businesses doing better? And then we're like, “All right, we need to figure out what the youth think.” So we worked with the OASIS Center, in Nashville, Tennessee. Did a focus group there, ask those same questions. Then we've also were like, “Okay, what about immigrants?” So we went to El Paso, Texas and we worked with the Rainbow Borderlands Center there right on the border of Mexico and Texas. We did the same thing. We conducted a focus group asking those questions. And then we also thought, “Well, how does religion play into all of this in a safe space?” Just out of curiosity so we worked with the Utah Pride Center to host a focus group to find out how ex-mormon church members and LGBTQ folks felt about what makes a safe space and what you want to see? So we came up with a set of nine criteria that folks that say on the side of equality be a Certified Safe Space by Stonewall, have to adhere to. And a big part of that, that everyone wanted was training. So we developed a training course. We have two modules around gender expression and gender identity, and some of the biases that people bring into the workplace, as well as some of the things that customers experience. So there's a training on that. And then a general training on why space spaces are important and things of that nature. So it's been a really cool journey. And now we've created a heat map all the safe spaces live where we can again celebrate those and showcase those that are on the side of equality. And some of the places that have become certified safe spaces, the New York City Marathon has been has been a Stonewall Certified Safe Space. The US Open is a Certified Stonewall Inn Safe Space. Crypto.com Arena where the Lakers play and where the Grammys are held, Certified Safe Space. Peacock Theater where the Emmys are held, Certified Safe Space. As well as a lot of small businesses and you know we've got 20 safe places and Italy. We've got some coming on in the UK. It's truly a global thing that we've created and the small costs that these corporations, companies, or small businesses occur to become certified, then we take it back and give it back to those grassroots activists and organizations continuing the Stonewall legacy on the ground. So it's a really a full-circle program that really ties in Stonewall being the original safe space. And we're super proud of the work and where it’s headed. 

SARA: So how can folks learn more about how to get certified, folks who are connected to organizations and groups that want that? 

STACY: Yeah, because we want to get as many out there on the map as we can. So maybe it's your dentist, honestly, maybe it's your vet. Whatever it is, we want to showcase people that are on the right side of equality, have them go through the training. And lots of times, companies or businesses, they just throw up the rainbow flag to show that their LGBTQ friendly. Again, that's lovely. We want it to be that they’ve trained, adhering to the things that our community wanted, and are truly on the side of equality. 

SARA: It makes such a difference, I know, especially in these times in this moment and living in a very conservative state, folks are always asking small groups and Facebook groups, “Who's the really trans-friendly barber?” 

STACY: Yeah. 

SARA: “I want to go to those places where I know me and my family will be welcome, where I can give my dollars and I want it more than just that there's a little rainbow.” Yeah, and you can go to Stonewall Initiative. Org. That’s stonewallinitiative.org. But just to give you some more criteria, so you understand, so, yes, in addition to training, they have to make sure they have at least one gender neutral bathroom on premise. They have to have some form of pronoun policies, so they acknowledge it, right, so they have to have that as well. They have to make sure they're supporting the community 365 days and year, not just during Pride Month. They need to donate to an LGBTQ nonprofit. It does not have to be us at SIGBI. It can be any nonprofits, so they're putting their money where their mouth is. They need to ensure that vetting their vendors and other business partners, that they're not working with people that are out there actively participating in helping write anti-trans legislation or giving money to these candidates writing anti-trans legislation and things of that nature. So, you know, it's only eight criteria, nine with the training. But it's a pretty comprehensive way to hold businesses accountable. And it does really showcase those that are truly on our side. 

SARA: That's amazing. That is really exciting. We'll put all of those links in our show notes so folks can access them. And we’d love to put a link to your heat map. 

STACY: Yes. Perfect. Yep. 

SARA: So folks can see where in the country those spaces are. And I'm hoping it'll also activate some of our Mama Dragons in our local communities to say, “Oh, we need more of those. We don't have any in my community. Let me see if I can help.” 

STACY: Yeah. And, again, because of COVID and really kind of testing everything, we've only got around 100. But I think by the end of next year we'd like to see that at 500. Right? We'd love to see that more even more. So we need everybody out there and the more we can get and highlight those businesses doing the right thing, let's do that, especially the time when so many of them are leaving us, right? So many companies, so many corporations doing away with DEI, really going down the wrong path about equality, around hiring LGBTQ folks, all of it, right? So we need to get back and really start having conversations, calling people back to the table, get people back in the business of belonging and get that really, really strong again. 

SARA: Yeah, do you know off the top of your head, are you in every state? 

STACY: No, we are not by any means, no. Because, again, we're just getting started with the heat map and rolling it all out. So we would love that. 

SARA: That's awesome, because we also have Mama Dragon across the country, and globally. So I'm going to put this as a call out to the Mama Dragons in our community to be like, what a wonderful project to work on to create more safe spaces in our local communities. And speaking of our Mama Dragon's community, our parents, who are often finding themselves in the middle of this fight – I love that you mentioned your work with the Utah Pride because Mama Dragons was born in that space of Mormon moms trying to protect their kids. We've now have grown far beyond that but that's the part of the origin story – And finding ourselves in the middle of the fight as we're raising queer and trans kids. So what do you think that Stonewall Inn, in the initiative, The Gives Back Initiative, has to say and offer to parents of LGBTQ kids today. 

STACY: Yeah. I think it's really, really hard. It's hard when this administration is attacking. It's hard when you're seeing so many, even what used to be allies, turning their back and just not standing up in the ways that we thought. We're seeing obviously medical records at the heart of lawsuits. And when your child's medical history is becoming political fodder, it's tough, right? And so we're always out there trying to educate people. And again, using our platform through the Stonewall Inn or through the Stonewall Gives Back Initiative, trying to educate folks around the misinformation that's out there around especially trans and non-binary youth and there's a ton of it. So we're trying to do that kind of work. We're also trying to do any kind of work we can to uplift the younger trans folks. We do, every year we have what we call the Stonewall Inn Brick Awards where we honor activists from all over the world. Each year we have a Billy Bean Youth Courage Award. And for the past four years it has been a trans youth who is really out there using their voice and fighting and showcasing and highlighting that their just kids that are in the middle of the political debate and storm that they did not sign up for. 

SARA: Yeah.

STACY: We're trying. We are trying. 

SARA: That's good. That's so good to hear. Because of the podcast I've had the good fortune to be able to interview some youth-led organizations. 

STACY: Yeah, and they're incredible. And so we try to fund those too through our grant, right? Some of the trans youth-led orgs, right? Or some of the organizations that are doing that kind of work. The first Youth Courage Award we did went to the Gender Cool Project, right? 

SARA: We had them on the podcast.

STACY: Yeah.

SARA: They’re wonderful. 

STACY: Yeah, just incredible. Yeah, so good. So we're always trying to do that. And, again, it does go back to, especially when you're talking about trans folks, being the most marginalized.  But again, Stonewall would not exists without them. So we cannot not ever leave them out of the conversation or out of the work that we do ever. 

SARA: That's fantastic. I appreciate that clarity so much. I think that is such an important message that I'm noticing more and more folks doing this kind of work in LGBTQ+ spaces are coming back to. They're remembering. They're coming back to that core central message of, it's the way of when we center those who were both part of the movement and most impacted, we really benefit the whole. 

STACY: That's right. That’s right.

SARA:  So continuing on this theme of Mama Dragons and parents and young people, I'm curious for you, what does resistance look like these days when you're not 20 years old and standing in the street throwing bricks? What are the ways that parents, grandparents, ordinary people can participate in this movement. And that's not to say that those that are doing that work in the streets, it's not to undercut that we need you. That's amazing.  And there are those of us that need to plug in in different ways and that might be scared of that front line activism. Yeah, what else is there? 

STACY: I think there's a lot right now, especially where we are in the world, right? It's not just America being so politically divisive and polarized. And tribalism is existing all over the globe. And we have a tendency to, then, go into our own little groups and preach to the choir. Or we have a tendency to stay within our own echo chambers online, all those kind of things. And what I'm really been trying to speak to everybody about is the real work is when you have a conversation with somebody who doesn't agree with you. That's when the real work happens. If we're just out there talking to each other, we're not going to change hearts and minds. We're not going to widen the circle of equality and belonging. We've got to go out there and have dialogue with people that have either left the equality movement or are not out there having, showcase, and highlighting that they are part in supporting and get our allies back. So I think for Mama Dragons and for everyday folks that can be engaging on Facebook in a way that is not just shutting down and attacking, not that your listeners do that, but a lot of folks just do that. If you don't agree with me, that's the end of the conversation. I think there's a lost art of conversation and nuance. And I think we've got to go back out and start talking again. And talking, not just in the comments section or on Facebook., although that can help too if it’s the right kind of conversation, right? But I think that we need everybody, when they see misinformation, to call it out. But call it out in a way where you're educating somebody and not just saying, saying, “Oh, you disagree with me, and we're done.” Right? I think there's a way to engage with people who we could probably get back our side through education and real thoughtfulness and also in an understanding of why because we're not getting to why. Why do you feel this way about trans folks? Or why you feel this way about the LGBT community? We just are shutting down and saying, “You are horrible person because of this.” And they may be a horrible person. But we've got to go in and start having dialogues with folks that maybe disagree. And having conversations, and difficult conversations, and being uncomfortable. And that's our role I see as advocates and things that nature is to go and have that difficult conversation with somebody who maybe is not fully bought in. And we need people fully bought it, and try to educate them instead of just immediately being like, okay, shutting down and just stop talking to them and just being like okay 

SARA: Yeah, that's a really good point. And it's a good reminder, I think, particularly to our community, because of where our moms come from. They are engaging in those conversations on a regular basis. 

STACY: Yeah.

SARA: Oftentimes when they're very own families. 

STACY: That's right. That's right. You can be at your own kitchen table, honestly, or it can be as big as your school board, right, in your school board meeting, or something of that nature. I'm just using as example. 

SARA: Yeah. 

STACY: But I think instead of just saying, “Okay, well, they disagreed with me, I'm not going to.” We've got to get to the heart of why. We made a lot of gains as a community. And we got a lot of victories, again, by the thing I started the whole podcast talking about. When we all come together, it is about unity. It's about every single one of us coming together with our allies as well. That's how we win. Another way is when we change hearts and minds. And I think we got away from it. I think we forgot about that part. And I think we're just like, “If you're on my side then screw you. We're done.” We need to figure out why you’re not on our side and get you back on our side. And to me, that's where the real work happens. 

SARA: That's great. I have a kind of fun final question for you. . . 

STACY: Sure.

SARA: . . . here's as  we wrap up our conversation together. If you could bring one of the folks who was at Stonewall in 1969, back into the bar today, who would you want it to be? What would you want them to see? And what would you want to tell them about what their resistance made possible? 

STACY: Well, it's tough. A lot of people think that when they talk about, it was a lesbian who maybe punched somebody. They think it was Stormy. I knew Stormy for years. Stormy used to walk me home from bars in the 90s and was kind of like a guardian of all of us young ones in the village. So I knew Stormy in real life. And I'm not sure it was Stormy, even. And so I'm going to go with Marsha for sure because I would want Marsha to understand all the things that came out of the movement and how those moments, and sometimes how horribly she was treated, has paid off in such a big way. Being the outcast, being the one that was pushed to the side, being the one that was homeless, being the one that started the first ever trans organization star in the US, like all these things. And then to walk into Stonewall now and see all kinds of folks paying honor and homage to, not just Stonewall, but to the trans community. And everything that all the orgs that have followed an incredible legacy of work that has come from Marsha’s existence. I just don't think she would ever have imagined how big and beautiful it has become. 

SARA: That’s beautiful. I'm getting teary-eyed picturing what you're describing if Marsha Johnson could walk into the Stonewall Inn today and what that experience could be like. 

STACY: Yeah.

SARA: Thank you for paying some tribute to her. This has been a wonderful conversation. I’m so excited to learn about the Gives Back Initiative and all of the work you're doing and just to be reminded of what an extraordinary place the Stonewall Inn is in our community and our culture in our history and that it's still going and still making a difference in spreading it's net as wide as possible. Thank you for all of that work. 

STACY: Yeah, no thank you for having me and I would just leave it with, again, that the call to action is reach out and talk to somebody that you don't think might be on your side and have that difficult conversation, number one. And number two, think about if any business that you visit or even a venue or a small shop or whatever it is that is doing the right things, let's get them certified as a safe space, get them on the heat map, and really showcase those are sticking with us during difficult times when a lot of people aren’t.

SARA: Yeah. Yes, let's do that. That's great. Thank you so much, Stacey, thank you for your time today and your work. 

STACY: Thank you. I really appreciated being here and thank you all for being incredible moms.

SARA: Before you go, everything we talked about today and a whole lot more lives in Empowered Parent Learning, our on-demand library of courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. This is free for members and a small, one-time fee for everyone else. It includes our Suicide Prevention Training, Parachute E-learning, and so much more. The link is in our show notes. You don't have to do this alone. We're in it together. 

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